Correct Marchals for 250 GTE/330 America

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson »

It is also interesting that yours seem to be installed on the outside and mine inside the body flanges...
As you can see, part of the bucket is painted silver, which means it was not removed when the car was repainted from white (Bianco). I know that was done in the early 80's and that both sides are done the same way. I would assume, therefore, that they have never been removed. Any chance yours were, Kare?
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Post by 330GT »

TomW,

Image
Would you please take a close-up of the wiring that clips onto the headlight bulb?
I was just working on the PF coupe and realized that the wiring from the body harness to the actual bulb is missing. It is a 40/45 watt bulb with three spade connectors on the back.
Regards, Kerry
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Post by Tom Wilson »

No problem Kerry, except that I am in New Hampshire celebrating my anniversary and the GTE was not allowed to come along (I think my wife is jealous). I will get you a photo sometime this week.
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Post by kare »

I am 39 and my car is 46 so there is no way I could tell whether the headlight buckets have been removed and reinstalled, but I think they changed the way of assembly between 2nd and 3rd series.

On my car the fender flanges and rubber gaskets have cuts to give access to upper and lower fixing points and those adjustment screw posts at 4 and 8 o'clock. All this suggests that the installation is original.

http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/kuvaa/img_0890.jpg

On 3rd series cars the fender flange is all round, so you cannot install the bucket inside front fender even if you wished to do so. Your buckets also have the rim clips left, so they were never installed inside.

It all makes sense as in my car you need to insert the gasket into the bucket, then place the bucket inside the fender before inserting the screws. A third hand would help... The outside installation is much easier; you just hold the bucket and the screw with one hand, and do the nut with the other.

Best wishes, Kare

PS. I need photos of both bulb and the piece that keeps the bulb in place. I have none and would like to know how they look like.
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Post by Tom Wilson »

It all makes sense as in my car you need to insert the gasket into the bucket, then place the bucket inside the fender before inserting the screws. A third hand would help... The outside installation is much easier; you just hold the bucket and the screw with one hand, and do the nut with the other.
The way you describe it, it is surprising that it took them so long to figure out the change!
I need photos of both bulb and the piece that keeps the bulb in place. I have none and would like to know how they look like.
No problem. I will photograph them when I get home.
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Post by Tom Wilson »

Kerry & Kare - Hopefully this will help you figure out what you need:

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

Looking closely at the clip brings up two questions. First, what is the tab at the bottom for? There is no wire on my car or on the electrical drawings that would attach to it. Second, what is the purpose of that loop of metal with the flat clip at the bottom? It looks like a flashlight bulb should go here and be powered by the extra tab. My guess is this is a generic clip purchased from some other company and that it had some purpose in another car or possibly a European Ferrari. Any ideas?

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

No guarantee that this is the correct bulb, as the car is 45+ years old and has probably been through a few bulbs in its day. However, I found it in the previous owners box of spare parts and it fits the clip shown above.

The Box has identification information in English, French and German on three of its sides. The fourth side, in all three languages, says “Important. When fitting the bulb, ensure that the small pressed out lug at the bottom of the bulb flange engages in the corresponding notch in the reflector”

The print on the top of the bulb says: “Norma; K2 E2 02; 12v – 45/40w; Made in France”. On the metal flange at the bottom is printed “Marchal 1263 B”, which corresponds with the number on the box.

Let me know if I can provide any other information or photos. I would like to fill in any gaps, as this must be the definitive Ferrari 250 GT 2+2 Headlight thread and I do not want to miss anything!
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Post by 330GT »

Tom Wilson wrote:Kerry & Kare - Hopefully this will help you figure out what you need:
Yes, just what I wanted. Thanks. It looks like the socket is the same as one for an old hi-lo sealed beam unit. So I'll take my bulb to an auto parts place to see if they still even sell sockets for sealed beams any more, or more likely will probably end up as a junk yard getting a couple of sockets from some old American car.
Tom Wilson wrote: Looking closely at the clip brings up two questions. First, what is the tab at the bottom for? There is no wire on my car or on the electrical drawings that would attach to it. Second, what is the purpose of that loop of metal with the flat clip at the bottom? It looks like a flashlight bulb should go here and be powered by the extra tab. My guess is this is a generic clip purchased from some other company and that it had some purpose in another car or possibly a European Ferrari. Any ideas?
This might be for a small bulb that would act like a parking light. I've seen other European reflectors that had a hole in the bottom for a similar purpose.
Regards, Kerry
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Post by Tom Wilson »

...or more likely will probably end up as a junk yard getting a couple of sockets from some old American car."

Kerry - Better make that a French car. The only identifying marker on the clip are the words "Made In France"
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Post by Tom Wilson »

Oops! Forgot to close my tags!
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Post by Yale »

330GT wrote:
Tom Wilson wrote:Kerry & Kare - Hopefully this will help you figure out what you need:
Yes, just what I wanted. Thanks. It looks like the socket is the same as one for an old hi-lo sealed beam unit. So I'll take my bulb to an auto parts place to see if they still even sell sockets for sealed beams any more, or more likely will probably end up as a junk yard getting a couple of sockets from some old American car.
Tom Wilson wrote: Looking closely at the clip brings up two questions. First, what is the tab at the bottom for? There is no wire on my car or on the electrical drawings that would attach to it. Second, what is the purpose of that loop of metal with the flat clip at the bottom? It looks like a flashlight bulb should go here and be powered by the extra tab. My guess is this is a generic clip purchased from some other company and that it had some purpose in another car or possibly a European Ferrari. Any ideas?
This might be for a small bulb that would act like a parking light. I've seen other European reflectors that had a hole in the bottom for a similar purpose.
I don't think those are "parking lights" Kerry but instead in-city running lights. I remember being a college student in Paris in 1974 and not understanding why all the cars drove around with their lights off, just using these very dim "running or city lights" I guess the feeling was there were street lights in a city so why waste the headlight bulb to provide un-needed light.

Parking lights on the other hand are only on one side of the car, often using your turn signal bulbs, and are there to illuminate your cars edges so folks don't run into you while parked on narrow European streets. In an early 911 after turning off the car, you could leave your turn signal stalk indented depending on what side you wanted lit. In the early Mercedes your headlight switch had a parking light function.

Kare could I request you post your photos like Tom has done so we can see all the photos everyone is talking about in the thread instead of having to link to your pages? Thanks. Yale
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Post by Tom Wilson »

In an early 911 after turning off the car, you could leave your turn signal stalk indented depending on what side you wanted lit.
My wife's BMW 325i has this feature and it is really annoying! She turns left into our driveway and often shuts the car off before the turn indicator stalk flips back into the off postion. This leaves the "parking" light on on the left side, causing at least one person a week to knock on our door to tell us our lights are on.

I should take the light apart to see the setup they have.
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

Tom,

It's not the car's fault. Obviously you should have bought
a house at the end of a cul de sac.
Some things are so easily remedied.

Avoid a war; say nothing to the wife.

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Post by kare »

Yes, the set-up in the bottom of the clip is for a parking light. Some lights have a collar around the headlight bulb, which will let the light out from behind of the reflector. Marchal headlights were very popular until early seventies and at that time most cars already had parking lights integrated into the headlights. Some used this design, some had the bulb sticking throught reflector.

Off course it is the correct bulb; the back of your headlight says "our obtenir le meilleur de rendement employer la lampe marchal 663 ou 1263 B ou J." which means "For the best result use bulb 663 or 1263 B or J".

Best wishes, Kare

PS: The laws and practises vary, off course, and different lights are used for different purposes in different cultures. The one side parking light was originally ment for abandoned vehicles on German motorways. It could take a long while before a car was collected, so the operating time was more than doubled by using the front and rear parking light on one side only. Never seen that feature on a car made outside Germany.
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Post by whturner »

330GT wrote:
Tom Wilson wrote:Kerry & Kare - Hopefully this will help you figure out what you need:
Yes, just what I wanted. Thanks. It looks like the socket is the same as one for an old hi-lo sealed beam unit. So I'll take my bulb to an auto parts place to see if they still even sell sockets for sealed beams any more, or more likely will probably end up as a junk yard getting a couple of sockets from some old American car.
Hi guys:

The old Hi-Lo standard sealed beam socket can be found easily as a replacement, but you have to solder the pigtails to your wiring. The 3 wires are very light gauge, at least the ones I could find.

I would go to my local antique auto parts place and pick up one made for a 6 volt system, which therefore have much heavier wires. Doesn't matter which kind of car, 6V was all they had until the mid 50's.

Cheers
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Post by Tom Wilson »

Avoid a war; say nothing to the wife.
Fortunately, I don't have to say anything. The neighbors do it for me!
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