Vintage Concours Categories

[Bryan P]

I did not go to Monterey, but just finished looking at a spreadsheet of the judging results for the Concorso Italiano. I found the classifications a little disturbing, but thought I would bounce my observations off this esteemed group before writing the Cavallino people and/or FCA.

The CI classifications were basically made by engine size. So a 250GTE competed with 250 GTOs, TDFs, Californias, GT SWBs, PF Cabriolet's, etc. A 330GT2+2 competed with other 330s and 365GT2+2s competed with Daytonas.

It seems to me that classification by car type makes more sense and offers a more level playing field for each class. I understand that, theoretically, each car is only supposed to be judged against itself by the 100 points. But I think you have to admit the reality that comparisons between the level of restoration, relative rarity and popularity of the cars in each class inevitably creep into the judging. At least several years ago, the the FCA concours classification grouped the vintage 2+2s together. I don't know what the FCA does now.

I think a judging class including the 250GTE, 330 America, 330GT2+2, and the 365GT2+2 makes more sense than the CI classification. How well would a 250GTE ever fare against a 250GTO? They are fundamentally different cars, just as a Queen Mother is a fundamentally different car from a Daytona. If you're worried that there would be too many classes for a particular event, you could include the 400/412 series cars as well as the 400 and 500 Superamericas/fasts in the 2+2 class.

any thoughts?

[Jim]

I have a problem with Concorso Italiano 2003.
In addition to the problem of Ferrari categories mentioned above, I was more disturbed by what I saw as a major departure in judging: Last year, if you won a Platinum, Gold or Silver award , you drove your car across the stage. Same for all categories (however flawed a category might be). This year, Cavallino appears, and only their restricted winner of each category came across the stage (notice that these cars were mostly ultra expensive). Meanwhile, at the same time the Concorso winners of Plat., Gold & Silver gathered a a distant tent to be handed their awards before a small gathering (no stage crossing for autos more likely owned and restored/maintained by normal folk). In previous meets, no cars newer than about 1979 have been allowed, yet, for Cavallino at Concorso italiano, a 2003 Enzo won best of show! So, this guy wrote a huge check, enters his one month old Enzo, and wins. I must say, I was terribly dissapointed in the turn of events at this years Concorso. Did anyone else perceive this issue?

[andy]

Check out the CI web page for detailed feedback the organizers got after the event and I think you will find you are in good company.

They claim that the feedback is "95% positive" but that's just their spin. I'd say it's more like 95% of the emails have some kind of constructive criticism or worse, e.g., angry letters from people who came away with damaged cars due to poor parking management.

Andy

[Keith Milne]

My wife and I typically visit the Concorso every year in Monterey. As I mentioned in a previous post, this year we decided to partcipate in the new event at the Quail Lodge with our non-Ferrari race car. The Quail event was VERY low key - almost like a garden party - but the quality of automobiles was outstanding. While not strictly Italian in format, there were marvelous examples of several Ferraris, Alfas and Abarths as well as a few extremely rare cars with LeMans history. The "judging" was done by peers based on the assumption that the entrants were knowledgable enthusiasts. Again, very low key. All in all, it was a well-run, elegant event and a nice alternative to the crowds at Black Horse.

[John Vardanian]

Seems CI’s future will have less and less vintage car participants and discerning spectators. It is going to turn into a cheesy festival that is inline with their fashion shows and opera singers. It will become the place where a pink Pantera with dragster wheels will compete with an iridescent purple Diablo for the people choice award.

The idea of an Enzo winning the best of show is ludicrous. The Enzo must be the ugliest car to ever leave Maranello; but, I suppose the upshot is that its coming to existence has suddenly made the 1980’s Testa Rosa an attractive car.

[lukek]

Sorry to be the contrarian. I enjoyed the Concorso and like the fact that is more populist than elitist. I prefer to see cars that are being driven, refulations that are less anal anal about silly details, and I enjoy all the associated stuff like vendor booths, opera, and even the fashion show, even if it is cheesy...

The fact that the organizers are willing to listen and respond to criticism is better than other organizations who claim to have the exclusive right formula.

I do agree that the Enzo winning was a little odd, since all it took was cash, but I very much enjoyed the show and the people. If I want to rub shoulders with the elite, I can always do Pebble (which I have not done for the last 5 years). Contrast in venues is good, IMO

I know that with my 250 GTE I am at the bottom of the V12 heap, and maybe I would feel differently if I had a TDf...



luke, SF, CA

[Jim]

You missed my point. I thought Concorso Italiano was much more elitist this year than in the past. And, the dual venue judging of Cavallino and Concorso seemed hypocritical. In the past, Tom Yang's car would be entered, judged, and have a chance of winning an award. The introduction of Cavallino has moved the event towards elitist (like Pebble), million dollar, one-of-a-kind entries. Yes, there was gobs of neat cars and vendor booths, but the execution of the event was troublesome.

[bill rose]

I'm still not clear on why the CI folks broke with the FCA. I know the FCA is not too happy about it! Perhaps this is a result of CI wanting to become my elitest ... making overtures to Cavallino Classic?

[lukek]

There is a nice article about this phenomenon in the Sept 1 autoweek. It talks about the whole weekend becoming a circus that is more about posing, money, and parties than it is about true auto enthusiasm. The latter is more or less defined by using the example of the author's father who restored his own Rolls, rather than having hired somebody to do so. For me....even though the nature of the event is changing I can still find lots of interesting stuff. The various club and org pissing contests are something I will not touch with a 10 foot pole (It is enough that I am a real Pole...)

[Mike G.]

Mabye somebody (Tom Yang?) will host a show just for DIY owner/restorers. I went to the Palm Beach CC this year (for the first time) and was dissappointed. I was hoping to get some helpful hints about restoring my Daytona, but the few that were actually sitting next to their cars weren't easy to talk to and had either bought them that way or paid to have all the work done and really didn't know much at all about the mechanical aspects of their cars. The weather was gorgeous, yet hardly any of them had bothered to open their doors, tops or hoods for anyone other than the judges. It seemed like a lot of schmoozers just their to show off their money.

These shows are run like a business, they go where the money is. And just like business, if the big boys all start going after the Fortune 100, then it opens up the opportunity for a niche player to service "the smaller guy" who cannot afford to (or doesn't wish to) purchase a brand new Enzo or already restored GTO. It seems that with every new subcriber to Tom's site, he's proving that there are more DIY restorers out there than most people probably realize.

- mike

BTW: The "day at the track" at CC was much more fun, but even though I was tagging along with Ted Rutland, it was still next impossible to stop and talk with the people who know enough to race their Ferraris (like Peter Sachs of Goldman Sachs).

[lukek]

I used to have a Mustang Fastback GT. I regret selling my 66, but hey..life goes on. The interesting thing about the Ford club was that they were contemplating an "in-progress" concours category, for classics and for restomods (classic with modern drivetrain and suspension bits). You would tow your steed, or maybe drive the primer gray Shelby GT350 onto the field.
The matching engine crowd would soil their Depends if they saw something line this at FCA or FOC !

I expect to make much progress in the DIY dept. as the wife is taking the kiddies to the in-laws for a week and I will not know what to do with myself. I will go at the locks first. The trunk opens just by tugging it, and the driver door tumbler turns freely. It will never be Fort Knox, but I need to have the piece of mind (now I posted this to a public forum) when I leave the car at the beach parking lot.

thx, luke
63 250 GTE

[fest]

this seems like on of those 'opinon' thread
where we can all rant and rave a bit
so here is mine

Last FCA meet that I attended
I was the youngest guy
with the oldest car - only V12
(and the only one that did my own work)

from my experience with the FCA
and the Ferrari scene in general
those that do their own work
(other than maybe wiper blades)
are considered the 'lunatic fringe'
and those that pay 'big bucks'
for 'expert service' are considered the norm

this is often taken to the extreme
even to the extent that I have even seen
in one of those 'Tips in purchasing a Ferrari'
by a so-called 'expert'
that one should AVOID a Ferrari
if the service was performed by the owner

this is the exact opposite of the 'rod' scene
or even the 'classic car' scene
(from whence I evolved)
where those with the 'big buck' restorations
are percieved as the 'weenies'
and the 'regular' joes that earned their nice rides
with sweat and busted knuckles
are percieved as the core members

I think I would rather have a car
maintained by a competent owner
than one maintained by a 'rip off artist'
posing as an 'expert'

take the case of my own S/N 32635
detailed service records back to 1996
annual, regularly scheduled 'by the book' service
by a 'reputable' east coast Ferrari 'expert', right?
NOT EXACTLY
I pulled off the Air Cleaner for look see
and the Filters were FILTHY
sand, leaves, grass, you name it
(looks like they had not been changed in 10 years)
idle went up 200 RPMs in fact
when I the fresh ones in
leads me to ask,
What else was overlooked?

I am willing to be snubbed by the so called experts
for the peace of mind
knowing that the work was done correctly

there is a place for guys like us
in the stratified Ferrari realm
right here, in fact!

[tyang]

Working on our own cars deinitely puts us in a minority, but it's the ones before us who give us a bad name. There are a lot of hacks out there fixing all types of cars as well as Ferraris, and everyone assumes we're one of them when we work on our own cars. Professionals are also protective of their business, so they will certainly convince you that the work should be left to them. For some people, that is true, but not for all of us!

Except for the no-expense-spared restorations, I think my car will be pretty nice, and probably better than what many shops can do. As far a showing the car, I'm not sure I care to be judged. It's very easy for a judge to tell you what is wrong with your car, but it's much harder to do the work yourself without an open checkbook!

Tom

[JimB]

For my part, I love working on my own car. I would never be able to own the car if I could not do my own work. When I purchased my 330gt I had no idea how much work it needed. Seems like whoever worked on it before was a butcher. Whether professional or a DIYer, these types give Italian cars a bad rap for reliability.
I recieved great satisfaction from doing my own restoration, something the big check book guy will never get. People look amazed when they ask who built the engine and I tell them I did.
I have resisted joining any of the Ferrari clubs because I too see them as elitest.
Maybe next year the Enzo will win the preservation award!
I don't think I'm going back to Concorso.

Jim Burnett