Horn Detailing

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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang »

Hi Craig,

There were a couple clues to thinking the horn compressor was painted the wrong color by a previous restorer. First, I believe the FIAMM bracket is usually cad plated, but the one on 3553, it was painted Hammertone. EVERYTHING was painted Hammertone. screws, brackets, everything. Second, Notice how the green oil tab was painted gray where it mounted to the cap instead being installed after painting. Third, The horn trumpets were also painted Hammertone, and on closer inspection, I found red paint down inside the trumpet body.

Your picture shows a Hammertone finish, but this was from a 1967 photo. FIAMM may have changed their finishes by then, but in 1962 when 3553 was made, I think they were still black wrinkle.

Here's a blow up of the data plates

Tom
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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello »

tyang wrote:Hi Craig,There were a couple clues to thinking the horn compressor was painted the wrong color by a previous restorer. First, I believe the FIAMM bracket is usually cad plated, but the one on 3553, it was painted Hammertone. EVERYTHING was painted Hammertone. screws, brackets, everything. Second, Notice how the green oil tab was painted gray where it mounted to the cap instead being installed after painting. Third, The horn trumpets were also painted Hammertone, and on closer inspection, I found red paint down inside the trumpet body. Your picture shows a Hammertone finish, but this was from a 1967 photo. FIAMM may have changed their finishes by then, but in 1962 when 3553 was made, I think they were still black wrinkle. Here's a blow up of the data platesTom
Hi Tom, thanks for your reply. Sorry, i did not explain my self very well. I am not concerned about paint, simply whether the larger compressor and the particular accompanying set of trumperts were correct on 3553. I agree the silver looks like repaint. My own limited research on this Fiamm subject tends to show that a Fiamm compressor found with a :( sad smiley ID plate will be painted black, and also tend to be pre 1965. I did not realize the Fiamm Roadmaster compressor was increased in size around the early 60's, nor the design with "stud" for oil cap.
Any chance you have details of the stampings on these ID plates?
Am I seeing things or is the black compressor same diameter but a shorter length?
The ad I posted is indeed for Fiamm in mid to late 60's... and at this late 60's date the Fiamm Roadmaster was rplaced by a Fiamm serie 2000 compressor and serie 2000 trumpets.
thanks for any help
Craig
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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang »

Hi Craig,

My photos don't resolve the detail you need. I will try to take a closer look when I get a chance. The other compressor is at our shop, so I have plenty of time to take some notes. If I don't get back to you in a couple of weeks, PM me, as I may forget to look!

Tom
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John Vardanian
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by John Vardanian »

Hello,

My horn came apart today for rebuilding. I have a couple of questions.

The rivets that hold the plaques at the bottom of the trumpets, how do I replace these rivets? These are blind rivets; they do not go through the base. I managed to shave the heads of the rivets today and released the plaques. Other than drilling a through hole at the center of the base for new through rivets, I do not know what else to do when I put back the plaques.

Any sources for the red hose?

Thanks for your help.

john
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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang »

Hi John,

Mike Dunn has this hose:
http://www.madenterprise.com/

Tom
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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello »

John Vardanian wrote:Hello,My horn came apart today for rebuilding. I have a couple of questions.The rivets that hold the plaques at the bottom of the trumpets, how do I replace these rivets? These are blind rivets; they do not go through the base. I managed to shave the heads of the rivets today and released the plaques. Other than drilling a through hole at the center of the base for new through rivets, I do not know what else to do when I put back the plaques.Any sources for the red hose?Thanks for your help.john
Hi John, just a suggestion. After all is pretty and ready for assembly, simply install the Roadmaster end plate with RTV. At this point, all you are missing is the "look" of the staked rivet. Make up some aluminun buttons you can stake with correct look and thickness and then simply glue them in place. You can make this more sophisicated, if you feel it is required, by center drilling the existing blind rivet stud and adding a tiny stud to the cosmetic "button"
maybe others have better ideas
Craig
PS the existing blind rivet appears to be staked twice with a "cross" pattern to create an 8 point star pattern
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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello »

Hi John, Can you post a clear , detail picture of your compressor ID plate that allows us to see the stamped code?
thank you
Craig
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by John Vardanian »

carello wrote:Hi John, Can you post a clear , detail picture of your compressor ID plate that allows us to see the stamped code?
thank you
Craig
Here it is.

Image
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

Hey, that red oil filler cap has the same number on it as mine, "710".
What a coincidence...

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
John Vardanian
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by John Vardanian »

Damn the Dutch brilliance! And I've been pouring OIL in that hole all this time...
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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello »

Here it is.
John, Thank you for the picture, but i cant make out the actual stamped number. What is it? I find the best technique for something like this, is to put the compressor on an open flat bed scanner and just scan at 300 or 600. Because of an open scanner bed your background will be black, but the end plate will scan just fine. You may need to lighten with your graphics program.

Here is an interesting maintenance instruction from Fiamm from a new 1972 set of series "2000". The instruction is the last item on the page so I was able to include the print date as well.

Do others have a scanner and a Fiamm compressor that they can post an ID plate here please?
I am noticing all my oil covers are marked 710 as well
thank you
Craig
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

Kerry Chesbro got me hooked on using pneumatic tool oil
for the compressor, which works really well. I use it on many
other things now as well.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
Koll
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Koll »

I gotta hand it to you guys! I'm in awe of the thought and care you're all paying to horns. Not owning a piece of history, it must add another dimension and complexity to restoring a car.

Too many people are lazy and "go modern" to fix a piece, component or assembly. Oftentimes not doing as good of a job as was originally done at the factory. Hey, it worked for 30+ years. Why did it fail? How can I duplicate what they did?

It's nice to see that kind of work. So rare. LOVE that factory photo!

I'm rebuilding a set of rear Girling MKIV calipers (w/handbrake mechanism) and am in awe of just how right they got things back in the day. But everybody thinks I'm insane for doing the level of work on them I honestly only think they're due.
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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang »

Hi Koll,

One of the nice things about working on these old cars is how rebuild able, or repairable the components are. Replacing these parts with modern parts is actually a detriment to the car no only for originality, but also because the new parts are probably inferior! Outside of Ferraris I am often disgusted with how poorly things are made, and how they just don't last anymore. Blame it on planned obsolescence or the Walmart mentality of cheapening the product, whatever the reason, it's nice to fix something that will last!

Tom
Koll wrote:I gotta hand it to you guys! I'm in awe of the thought and care you're all paying to horns. Not owning a piece of history, it must add another dimension and complexity to restoring a car.

Too many people are lazy and "go modern" to fix a piece, component or assembly. Oftentimes not doing as good of a job as was originally done at the factory. Hey, it worked for 30+ years. Why did it fail? How can I duplicate what they did?

It's nice to see that kind of work. So rare. LOVE that factory photo!

I'm rebuilding a set of rear Girling MKIV calipers (w/handbrake mechanism) and am in awe of just how right they got things back in the day. But everybody thinks I'm insane for doing the level of work on them I honestly only think they're due.
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John Vardanian
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by John Vardanian »

carello wrote:
Here it is.
John, Thank you for the picture, but i cant make out the actual stamped number. What is it? I find the best technique for something like this, is to put the compressor on an open flat bed scanner and just scan at 300 or 600. Because of an open scanner bed your background will be black, but the end plate will scan just fine. You may need to lighten with your graphics program.

Here is an interesting maintenance instruction from Fiamm from a new 1972 set of series "2000". The instruction is the last item on the page so I was able to include the print date as well.

Do others have a scanner and a Fiamm compressor that they can post an ID plate here please?
I am noticing all my oil covers are marked 710 as well
thank you
Craig
Hi Craig,

My compressor plaque is stamped 309. Sorry about the photo quality. I took about a dozen and this was the best of all. The problem is that the plaque acts as mirror to the flash. I can can take another in daylight if you'd like. Thanks.

john
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