250gtpf2 vs. 275gts

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:08 pm

Thanks for all of your comments regarding the 250gtpf2 market.

I have to admit, all of my contacts are urging me to consider the 275gts over the pf2 cab for the following reasons:

1. Easier to sell

2. Much more of a driver's car (quote: "the pf2 drives like a truck")

Problem is, I love the lines of the pf2cab, reminds me of the california spider.

What do you guys think?

Rob

John Vardanian · Post by **John Vardanian** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:43 pm

In my opinion, classic cars are first about sex appeal, and then somewhere in the lower rankings comes practicality. Buy the car that is beautiful to your eyes, and your eyes only. Trust your own gut feeling.

John Vardanian

Michael Greenspan · Post by **Michael Greenspan** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:04 pm

I agree with John - If you don't have a little voice in your head saying "wow!!" each time you see the car don't buy it. I'm not a trader and I buy things that I hope to look at years from now and still hear the "wow!"

Post by **tyang** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:35 am

Hi Rob,

I agree with the guys, go with your heart. There are also opinions that the 275GTS looks like a Fiat! Let your friends drive what they want, and you buy and drive what you want!

Tom

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:49 am

The 275gts does look like an alfa romeo spider veloce with borannis.

But having a fun drive is important too, is the pf2 that much of a "truck" on the road?

How high would you bid a 1- condition pf2?

Rob

P.S. Thanks for the honest views all.

Yale · Post by **Yale** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:27 am

I love driving my 330GT but I don't think many aficionados consider it a great drivers car. The fact is at normal speeds neither is a Daytona. None the less, it is a gas for me everytime I get in it because it is familiar, at this point I prefer the work it takes to drive it much over the ease of a modern car. Many of the Ferrari's were called trucks at one time or another. (That said the 275GTS is that first Ferrari I saw (in the 80's in a book) that made me realize Ferrari's were not all swoopy gold chain cars.)

John Vardanian, how is driving your PF coupe and how does it compare to your 250GTE?

Yale

andy · Post by **andy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:23 am

If you don't like the car's looks then no amount of performance is going to make you feel better about the car (unless it's an Enzo). But if you get goosebumps every time you go in your garage to look at your car then you won't give a rat's ass what it rides like. After all you're not autocrossing it. You're just driving it on the street.

Andy

John Vardanian · Post by **John Vardanian** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:55 am

My PF Coupe is a Series 1 car, meaning, drum brakes, taller wheels and slimmer tires, no overdrive and a smoky (by nature) inside plug engine, all translating to an old fashioned ride. The PF Cabriolet we are talking about here is a Series 2 car with the overdrive, the disc brakes, a more powerful outside plug engine, and a lower to the ground stance due to 15-inch wheels and wider tires. In essence, it is not very different from the 250 GTE. It should accelerate, handle and stop like the GTE.

The 275 GTS on the other hand has a transaxle, independent suspension at four corners and a torquier engine. The 275 GTS, however, has an inherent problem with harmonic vibration due to a “skipping rope” drive shaft. The mechanics will claim to have fixed the problem by realigning the drive train, but the fix is temporary and almost never definitive. No matter how you go about it sooner or later the vibration comes back at various bandwidths.

My wife and I absolutely love our PF Coupe. We have put more traveling miles on the PF Coupe in the last 10 months than we have put on the Lusso for the past three and a half years, simply because the PF Coupe is a more pleasant car to drive. When you are in it, it is like being in your favorite grandma’s living room. The 1960’s Ferraris can beat the 1950’s Ferraris in every category except one: charm.

I dread the thought of ever having to let go of my PF Coupe.

John Vardanian

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:31 am

Rob: it's your money. And considering that you're going to be putting up quite a chunk of it, I'm a little surprised that you're asking us. Or even worse, that your contacts, who I'll presume to be people trying to sell you a car, are getting into your head with your permission. One of the few people I'd exempt from that category would be Michael Sheehan. Okay, I'm probably being too hasty and you're just trying to do your homework.

My point here is that as several of the other posters have said, buying an old Ferrari is a very personal decision. Please remember that they're vintage cars, based on 40+-year-old technology. And they're going to feel that way on the road. They're not terribly comfortable, the driving position is weird, the steering wheel seems more suited to a Greyhound bus, it's noisy, and you'd better keep a fan belt with you, because you'll never find one at the gas station just down the road from where yours broke.

My Mazda RX7 twin turbo will run rings around my SII cab, or John's coupe, or Tom's 330 America. Maybe even the 275GTS, I dunno. But it doesn't really matter. Because when you take them for what they are, in the context of their era, the vintage Ferrari "ownership experience" is so much more than their on-road performance or their resale value.

As far as what we'd pay, the real issue is what you'll pay. As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your choice". Just remember that just about all of them will need something, some more than others. Unless you're talking to the guy that's lived with the car for the last ten years and he's being straight with you, or a trusted professional like Francois Sicard or Steve Tillack or someone of that caliber who's actually restored the car, it's going to be a crapshoot. Oh, and that nothing, other than the air in the tires, is cheap on these cars.

Actually, the aforementioned Mr. Sheehan wrote a really good piece on why restoring one of these beasts costs what it does. Anyone seen this?

http://www.ferrariportal.com/search/sit ... &keywords=

John Vardanian · Post by **John Vardanian** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:33 pm

Sheehan has just posted a 275 GTS. It is in a very pretty color. It is interesting that he is also offering a Series II 250 Cabriolet at the same time. The Cabriolet is also in a very nice color.

John Vardanian

http://www.ferrariportal.com/search/sit ... &keywords=

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:13 pm

david--

thanks for your thoughtful message. I could not find the article on restoration via the link you provided.

I am leaning towards 3009 (pf2cab) if I can get a fair price or perhaps sheehan's 275 gts if I don't have to take restoration risk. It needs $40k of work. The problem is like the way the pf2 looks and I like the way the 275gts drives. I also think a 275 is more liquid in the market if I wanted to sell. And while I am partial to Ferrari, I still quietly check the 300sl roadster market from time to time as, for as much I hate Mercedes, the 300sl holds its value, is good looking, and drives well---but it ain't a Ferrari.

thanks again for your insights.

Rob

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:29 am

Um, I'm confused. The 275 needs $40k of work? Pictures can be very deceiving of course, but with the exception of that groovy center console and the engine-turned dash plate, the top and interior look perfectly serviceable to me. Or has it been re-done in vinyl from the local So-Fro Fabrics store? P'raps M. Sheehan has divulged some terrible secret that's not in his usual straightforward Web description?

And what of SII cab #3009? Where might one see pictures and information on that car so as to compare the two, since you've sort of hooked us into this horserace.

I also don't get the seeming nervousness over the perceived future financial performance of these two cars versus a 300 SL rdstr. I realize that people get involved with these cars for different reasons, and that as long as their check clears, they can do what they want for whatever reason motivates them. But, ah, while you're unlikely to lose money on either car, buying one primarily as an investment tool is not going to be doing the car or your financial portfolio a real big favor.

Yale · Post by **Yale** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:56 am

I agree with D. Booth here. Getting on a site that is mostly concerned (but certainly not totally), with Ferraris of the four seat variety and talking about investment opportunities in the car world is a misreading of what the people here - who love these cars despite their lack of investment potential - care about.

At the end of the day, your going to be on the planet breathing another few decades or so. Buy the car you think is cool and the worst that could happen is that you turn around and sell it if you don't like it, but you will have had the experience of owning a 1950's Ferrari. (And there might only be a few hundred people alive who can say the same thing). If you lose a little money on the deal, well then consider it a rental.
Best, Yale

Post by **tyang** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:11 am

Hi Rob,

Talk of the liquidity of Ferrari cars makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end! There are far better investment opportunities for your money than Ferraris, and if that's your concern, don't buy one. If you want to get a reasonable amount of money back from your Ferrari when you sell, either car should do well if you buy wisely. What kind of work will cost $40K for that 275GTS?

There are plenty of people who still think cars are great investments, but you won't find many here. We're just Ferrari enthusiasts who really enjoy the ownership of these old cars!

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Tom

John Vardanian · Post by **John Vardanian** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:21 pm

I have to say; it's been awhile since we have had a debatable subject matter. It’s good to see knickers in the uproar. I dare to add fuel to the fire by saying: the 300SL is terribly un-sexy (or at least sexy only in a Teutonic sense), especially heavy, underpowered and overrated.

John Vardanian