Car lifts
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Michael Greenspan
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:57 am
Car lifts
I am just starting thge reconstruction of our garage and the design allows me to put a lift on one side. I would appreciate any advice on manufacturers, models or any direct experience. Thanks
When I built my shop in 2002, I spent quite a bit of time looking into what type of lift I wanted. Basically there are a couple of questions you need to answer:
1. Do you want to use it mainly for oil changes, detailing, etc.? If so, a 4 post drive on lift would be appropriate. These also have the feature of being somewhat portable since they can be mounted with rollers that can be lowered to roll it around. The disadvantage of a 4 post drive on lift is that the car is still on its wheels so to do any suspension work, you have to fit an extra jack that mounts between the ramps to lift the front or rear. The ramps are also fairly wide (to accommodate different tires and car widths. So they make it hard to access anything along the underneath sides of the car.
2. Do you want to be able to open the doors and work on the interior of the car when it is on the lift? This might sound like a stupid question, but once you've spent a couple of hours bent over working on the interior of a low car like a 308, having the ability to raise it a couple of feet really saves your back. A 2 post asymmetric lift has unequal arms (shorter in the front), so the post ends up near the door hinge. Thus you can open the door while the car is on the lift.
3. Another choice is a 2 post symmetric (equal length arms) lift. The posts are mounted mid point so they end up about the center of the car thus obstructing the doors. You can get a wide version that would allow most sports car door to open while on the lift though.
4. Of course, there is the 'pit' choice where you have a hole dug under where you want to work on the car. This has the advantage of always being there which becomes a disadvantage when it isn't covered. Its main advantage is that there are no height issues since the vehicle isn't raised. Just be careful to not drop a wheel in when driving in or out.
5. The old service station style with the big hydraulic cylinder that goes into the ground isn't used much anymore unless you have access to one being removed. These function like a 2 post symmetric lift except that they obscure more of the center part of the car with the lifting mechanism.
For more information on the lift I installed (and a link to the maker), please see http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/ShopLift.htm or http://209.128.90.174/kbc/ferrari/ShopLift.htm if the former doesn't work for you.
Regards, Kerry
PS, you do need to determine what type of lift you want and the height it'll need (with your tallest vehicle on it) in order to determine the height of the roof at that area. With my asymmetric lift, I needed about 12' clear where the posts were placed which wasn't under the roof peak. This required a higher side wall than I originally planned.
1. Do you want to use it mainly for oil changes, detailing, etc.? If so, a 4 post drive on lift would be appropriate. These also have the feature of being somewhat portable since they can be mounted with rollers that can be lowered to roll it around. The disadvantage of a 4 post drive on lift is that the car is still on its wheels so to do any suspension work, you have to fit an extra jack that mounts between the ramps to lift the front or rear. The ramps are also fairly wide (to accommodate different tires and car widths. So they make it hard to access anything along the underneath sides of the car.
2. Do you want to be able to open the doors and work on the interior of the car when it is on the lift? This might sound like a stupid question, but once you've spent a couple of hours bent over working on the interior of a low car like a 308, having the ability to raise it a couple of feet really saves your back. A 2 post asymmetric lift has unequal arms (shorter in the front), so the post ends up near the door hinge. Thus you can open the door while the car is on the lift.
3. Another choice is a 2 post symmetric (equal length arms) lift. The posts are mounted mid point so they end up about the center of the car thus obstructing the doors. You can get a wide version that would allow most sports car door to open while on the lift though.
4. Of course, there is the 'pit' choice where you have a hole dug under where you want to work on the car. This has the advantage of always being there which becomes a disadvantage when it isn't covered. Its main advantage is that there are no height issues since the vehicle isn't raised. Just be careful to not drop a wheel in when driving in or out.
5. The old service station style with the big hydraulic cylinder that goes into the ground isn't used much anymore unless you have access to one being removed. These function like a 2 post symmetric lift except that they obscure more of the center part of the car with the lifting mechanism.
For more information on the lift I installed (and a link to the maker), please see http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/ShopLift.htm or http://209.128.90.174/kbc/ferrari/ShopLift.htm if the former doesn't work for you.
Regards, Kerry
PS, you do need to determine what type of lift you want and the height it'll need (with your tallest vehicle on it) in order to determine the height of the roof at that area. With my asymmetric lift, I needed about 12' clear where the posts were placed which wasn't under the roof peak. This required a higher side wall than I originally planned.
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Michael Greenspan
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:57 am
Although I didn't need to, I also had the concrete thickness under the posts doubled to 8" thick. For my lift, the requirement was 4" of 3000 PSI concrete. The normal concrete used for a garage floor is only 2000-2500 PSI strength so I specified the extra strength (at extra cost of course). If you are putting mesh or rebar into the floor, be sure that it won't interfere with the holes you need to drill to mount the lift. Since I had the extra thickness, I put the rebar in that area down at the bottom since the anchors don't go that deep.
Regards, Kerry
Regards, Kerry
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David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
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Chris Coios
Michael,
A detail point to consider when determining the clearance height above the lift in the top position. Remember to take into account the height of the engine hood of a car when the hood is up. Front engine Ferrari V-12 hoods are relatively long, for example. Raising the car on a lift with the hood up could be an unhappy experience if you do not have enough height to the ceiling!
Chris
A detail point to consider when determining the clearance height above the lift in the top position. Remember to take into account the height of the engine hood of a car when the hood is up. Front engine Ferrari V-12 hoods are relatively long, for example. Raising the car on a lift with the hood up could be an unhappy experience if you do not have enough height to the ceiling!
Chris
hocky pucky
one tip I learned from the 'pros'
is to use Hockey Pucks
as pads when using a lift
(in this case it was 2 post summetric
lifting an Enzo)
is to use Hockey Pucks
as pads when using a lift
(in this case it was 2 post summetric
lifting an Enzo)
In the front of the 330, I set the pads under the frame just behind the wheels (where the splash shield is). In the rear, there are two stubs that stick out from the frame ahead of the differential that I use. In both cases, I use 4" extensions so the arms don't impact on the pinch weld of the rocker panels. You have to position the arms in a free place under the car, insert the extensions and pads and then position the pads under the pickup points. There isn't enough room to swing the arms with the extensions under the car as they will hit the muffler.
The 308 is more interesting in that it's so low that the arms won't even swing under it. So I have to jack up each side to get the car onto the lift pads (w/extensions). What is even worse is that my garage jack is too high too so I end up using the Ferrari jack on each side.
Regards, Kerry
The 308 is more interesting in that it's so low that the arms won't even swing under it. So I have to jack up each side to get the car onto the lift pads (w/extensions). What is even worse is that my garage jack is too high too so I end up using the Ferrari jack on each side.
Regards, Kerry
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Michael Greenspan
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:57 am
Thanks for all of the advice - I have been educated, amazed and amused. All of the advice will be taken very seriously. Kerry, I contacted the folks that you bought your lift from and they have been very quick and thorough in their replies. The architect and builder are figuring out whether we have the clearance or not.
I definitely wouldn't have remembered about the raised hood, but now I wont forget! and, I have asked a friend who is a hockey buff to get some hockey pucks from the NY Rangers - they must have some old ones laying around and given the expense of keeping the car I figure this is a good place to start economizing. Hopefully in the late spring I can post some photos of the car returning from Francois and finding its new home complete with lift.
Michael
I definitely wouldn't have remembered about the raised hood, but now I wont forget! and, I have asked a friend who is a hockey buff to get some hockey pucks from the NY Rangers - they must have some old ones laying around and given the expense of keeping the car I figure this is a good place to start economizing. Hopefully in the late spring I can post some photos of the car returning from Francois and finding its new home complete with lift.
Michael
framed
while on the subject of lifting and jacking
I must warn all
not to make the 'rookie' mistake I did
(but have not admitted publicly until now)
DO NOT LIFT OR SUPPORT THE CAR BY THE FRAME
the first time I put the car up on Jack Stands
(when I R and R'd the Transmission)
I (stupidly) supported the full weight of the car on the Frame
and
the Jack Stands dented the Frame
the Frame appears to be made of mild steel
(at least softer than the frames on US Cars)
it IS quite stiff and rigid
(in fact did not appear to twist at all
when supported by only 3 Stands at one point)
but cannot handle concentrated stress / weight
subjected to when Jack Stands are used
the front and rear cross members
DO appear to be sturdy enough to jack from;
it is the longitudinal oval section members
that can't handle the weight
I now use the factory jacking points
(beware of this with rusty cars, however)
I must warn all
not to make the 'rookie' mistake I did
(but have not admitted publicly until now)
DO NOT LIFT OR SUPPORT THE CAR BY THE FRAME
the first time I put the car up on Jack Stands
(when I R and R'd the Transmission)
I (stupidly) supported the full weight of the car on the Frame
and
the Jack Stands dented the Frame
the Frame appears to be made of mild steel
(at least softer than the frames on US Cars)
it IS quite stiff and rigid
(in fact did not appear to twist at all
when supported by only 3 Stands at one point)
but cannot handle concentrated stress / weight
subjected to when Jack Stands are used
the front and rear cross members
DO appear to be sturdy enough to jack from;
it is the longitudinal oval section members
that can't handle the weight
I now use the factory jacking points
(beware of this with rusty cars, however)
I purchased a four-post lift earlier this year for my garage. I went through much of the same thought process outlined above and decided the four-post was the way to go for me. I use it all the time just to vacuum my cars! No bending over, you can see under the seat it is great! I looked at just about every four post made and picked a Backyard Buddy. This is the strongest design I found, far better than the others out there. However, you do pay a little more. My lift is so sturdy I can pull my Excursion onto it with no problem or concern. You will need two people and some floor jacks to put it together or at least four strong men. Now that it is together the wheel kit makes moving it a one person job. Good luck!
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Ade Maritz
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:38 am
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Dr. Ian Levy
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:16 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
- Contact:
Car lifts
Well you guys have certainly got me worried.
For most of the restoration work on my 365 GTC 4 I used a 3 post 3 ton lift (6720 lbs Imperial UK) & supported the car on the 'H' frame of the lift under all 4 jacking points with a block of wood covered by a rubber pad.
Was this wrong?
To move the car to the Body(paint) shop I made a large wheeled trolley with square shaped 'U' brackets into which the oval chassis tubes fitted front & back. There was no problem at all but then the car had been stripped to the shell.
Was this wrong also?
My old lift was beyond repair & I now have a single post lft because of lack of space with which I lft the car with the adjustable arms under all 4 jacking points
Is this wrong also & what am I going to bend?
I am now worried as the car has the engine, transmission, suspension back in place & is approaching its full weight
Your advice would be appreciated
Regards
Ian Levy
Manchester
UK
For most of the restoration work on my 365 GTC 4 I used a 3 post 3 ton lift (6720 lbs Imperial UK) & supported the car on the 'H' frame of the lift under all 4 jacking points with a block of wood covered by a rubber pad.
Was this wrong?
To move the car to the Body(paint) shop I made a large wheeled trolley with square shaped 'U' brackets into which the oval chassis tubes fitted front & back. There was no problem at all but then the car had been stripped to the shell.
Was this wrong also?
My old lift was beyond repair & I now have a single post lft because of lack of space with which I lft the car with the adjustable arms under all 4 jacking points
Is this wrong also & what am I going to bend?
I am now worried as the car has the engine, transmission, suspension back in place & is approaching its full weight
Your advice would be appreciated
Regards
Ian Levy
Manchester
UK
Hi Ian,
I don't think I would worry too much. The large oval chassis tubes are pretty strong as long as there is no rust. It's the jacking points that the factory provides for the tire jack that I rarely trust. These receivers are thin gauge metal and with the slightest hint of corrosion, will deform.
I always try to dissipate the pressure of the jacking points with a piece of wood. Soft wood will deform enough to keep from denting any steel parts, but just use some common sense when jacking a car up.
Tom
I don't think I would worry too much. The large oval chassis tubes are pretty strong as long as there is no rust. It's the jacking points that the factory provides for the tire jack that I rarely trust. These receivers are thin gauge metal and with the slightest hint of corrosion, will deform.
I always try to dissipate the pressure of the jacking points with a piece of wood. Soft wood will deform enough to keep from denting any steel parts, but just use some common sense when jacking a car up.
Tom