pertronix ignition conversion anyone?

[LinuxLotusJagNut]

I am working on a friend's two 1967 330 GT 2+2 cars and after replacing the wires and plugs I am still seeing ignition signal dropouts on one of the cars when checking the spark with a timing light. I am a big believer in electronic pointless ignition conversions due to excellent success with similar conversions on other cars. I see on Ebay a company by the name of KMJ Performance advertising a Pertronix kit MR-1122A for the 1966 - 1968 Ferrari 330GTC V12 which from looking at the 330GTC also sitting in my shop here would seem to be the exact same distributor setup. However I have not seen any actual feedback on any of the common vintage Ferrari forums about this kit. Also I called and E-mailed this vendor to ask if I needed two of these kits for a dual distributor car or if I needed only one lit to do both distributors. Unfortunately I got two different answers, one answer via E-mail and a different answer from the person I spoke to on the phone.

Can anyone here who has had any experience with installing any pertronix pointless ignition conversion onto a vintage dual distributor V12 provide any direct feedback?

[Timo]

Hmm, in my somewhat limited experience as a vintage car hobbyist for about 35 years with 25 of them as a professional (?) restorer, I've had to deal with problems related to electronic ignition conversions on more than one occasion and I'm yet to see any convincing evidence in support of them in vintage cars used purely for pleasure. On the other hand, I've experienced/seen several reasons against it, including some with Pertronix in dual distributor V12 Ferraris and one case when I had to drive to their HQ to show them severe inherent flaws in their product development/manufacturing methods and after a long wait in their office lobby, received the "corrected" item still with same flaws and after expressing my wish to correct these flaws on my own, but requiring couple of untampered components to do this with was forced to buy them. Afterwards, I vowed never again to use or endorse such a cra**y company/product.
One should just keep simple facts in mind when considering such "upgrades", like the fact that companies producing such aftermarket items are usually profit driven enterprises (not that there's anything wrong with it) and will often spend huge amounts of marketing $$'s to make consumers believe that these products somehow make their cars better/faster/more reliable or whatever. Also, one should keep in mind that most car media articles will do nothing but support these often questionable "claims" as they do not dare to upset these revenue sources they need for their own survival.
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the cars receiving such conversions (or any number of other aftermarket "upgrades") have had their owners and/or mechanics fallen under aforementioned marketing spells or may not have enough experience or proper equipment to tune older car(s) adequately.
My bottom line is that properly set distributor(s)/timing/tuning utilizing O.E. components should provide years, and in most vintage cars, decades of trouble-free service. This, of course, is based on assumption that the rest of the engine/vehicle is in top notch mechanical condition also and if not, no amount of aftermarket band-aid will make it reliable.

[LinuxLotusJagNut]

Timo:
Can you please be more clear about what severe inherent flaws you found with the Pertronix product? Was it specific to the V12 Ferrari kit fitment or a more generic flaw?

As I said I have used Pertronix point replacement kits on other cars and noted an improvement in reliability as far as starting and longevity (I.E. the car with side draft Dellortos sits for long periods of time and I have good results with starting).

[tyang]

I've tried chasing down electronic ignition issues with both MSD, Pertronix, and Allison/Crane Cams ignition boxes for personal and customer cars. It sounds like Timo took his issues further than I did, but switching back to conventional points on some of these cars eliminated the mysterious problems I experienced. That does not mean all electronic ignition systems would do the same, but occasionally I will get a problem that seems to not have a solution except going back to conventional points. One MSD system mysteriously would show proper timing at idle, but would be retarded 20 degrees at 4Krpm. Disconnecting the MSD box and the problem disappeared. I didn't even know where to start figuring out what the problem was, and wasn't about to charge the customer for the time to do so, but the switch back to conventional points solved the problem.

Another car with Pertronix kept blowing up boxes very couple hundred miles. Voltage was checked over and over again, but there was never a smoking gun. When the owner finally gave up after buying a several boxes, he asked to help. I resolved to return the distributor to points, but was to going to waste his time or mine chasing down the Pertronix issues. Conventional points worked fine.

We live in a world where people want their vintage cars to behave like their daily drivers with tune up intervals to last 60K miles, but is it really necessary? Most Vintage Ferrari owners drive their cars less than 2K miles a year, and at that rate, a tune up would only come around every 3-4 years, and even then, a simple point filing and point gap reset would all be needed. We should embrace this little bit of fiddling as apposed to relying on black boxes that either work or don't!

Another thought, it a Pertronix system requires removing parts from within the Marelli distributor. If one fails, the only solution on the side of the road is to replace it with another one. Going back to points is not so simple.

Tom

[Timo]

Sorry if I come across as bitter prick, but I prefer not to waste too much more time on the subject of Junktronix as it already cost me dearly in time and frustration few years ago. All I can say that the kit (for 6-lobe Daytona distributors) they produced/sold at the time was made of some cruedly modified components designed for some other application. Some of the components started to fall apart soon after been put to use and as I mentioned earlier, even after explaining/showing the cause and instructing how to remedy it, companys technical director(?) failed to comprehend the problem and instruct his minions properly (I wasn't allowed into contact with their "R & D" personnel).
Yes, due to my clients insistent request and myself being a person who can't give up, I was finally able to get it to work, but the time and effort required to do so was completely unreasonable. Also, the companys attitude of "there's nothing wrong with our product" (although, during my visit even the said technical director(?) contradicted himself in his comments regarding quality more than once) and lack of genuine interest in helping me after I had offered/proved reasonable and easy-to-implement improvements required for their product didn't help.
Then again, what do I know, I've only spent most of my life just repairing or restoring old cars (everything from 1904 Autocar or 1906 Holsman to LWB Comp. California or Daytonas, etc) and they can sell that junk without any improvements anyway.
For example, I have a 1932 Plymouth Roadster with 6-volt positive ground electrical system and latest technology component upgrades dating to early '50's. It starts almost instantly, even after sitting sometimes for weeks or months with battery cables connected and I wouldn't hesitate to jump into it and start driving it from here (Southern California) to let's say N.Y. tomorrow.
And if I were to encounter ignition issues along the route, with points and all other O.E.-type components I could actually do something about it on the spot
Another rule of thumb for most electrical problems in older cars: more often than not they're caused by inadequate ground.

[Timo]

I wanted to clarify that I'm not completely against all electronic ignition conversions, just haven't encounter any worthwhile evidence supporting their alleged superiority over properly maintained/working O.E. systems, but my previous rants on this subject yesterday were appropriately enhanced by really well balanced Pinot Noir