got a few more pics posted
(from last week)
finally
feel free to peruse
Timing Chain, Tipo F101C
Fest,
Surely the answer to the 'one piece chain' issue is to remove one chain pulley. This will enable you to thread the chain on all the other pulleys and then put the 'removed' pulley back on with the chain installed on it.
Thus find a pulley that if removed will only have to move a little out in distance (to keep the chain as straight as possible).
The other solution is to remove one camshaft. This will enable the chain to be installed on all other pulleys and then reinstall the cam ... threading in the chain at the same time.
Joining links are never as good as a continuous chain ... but perfectly okay if that is how you want to do it. Just ensure that the link trails ...
Pete
Surely the answer to the 'one piece chain' issue is to remove one chain pulley. This will enable you to thread the chain on all the other pulleys and then put the 'removed' pulley back on with the chain installed on it.
Thus find a pulley that if removed will only have to move a little out in distance (to keep the chain as straight as possible).
The other solution is to remove one camshaft. This will enable the chain to be installed on all other pulleys and then reinstall the cam ... threading in the chain at the same time.
Joining links are never as good as a continuous chain ... but perfectly okay if that is how you want to do it. Just ensure that the link trails ...
Pete
one piece
in the case of my Engine
installing the Timing Chiain in one piece
would be extremely difficult
due to the fact that the Timing Chain
must pass over a Guide Pad
directly under the Guide (Idler) pullies
(see diagramme I have posted)
Sliding the Front Cover over the Studs
with the Chain installed
into the Timing Case
with the Middle Pad installed
would be really difficult
(as the Chain does not bend that way)
I could slide the Cover on
with the Chain in place
and then somehow install the Center Guide Pad
from behind through the small opening
but this would be too difficult
and I have the Gasket and O-Rings to worry about
(as both Engine Oil and Coolant pass thru Timing Cover)
during this installation as well
seems to make sense to get Timing Cover
installed correctly, Pressure Test for leaks
then install Timing Chain as per Workshop Manual
by treading thru and securing with Master Link
I would rather use a one-piece Chain
but the Original Split Chain DID last over 100K KM
installing the Timing Chiain in one piece
would be extremely difficult
due to the fact that the Timing Chain
must pass over a Guide Pad
directly under the Guide (Idler) pullies
(see diagramme I have posted)
Sliding the Front Cover over the Studs
with the Chain installed
into the Timing Case
with the Middle Pad installed
would be really difficult
(as the Chain does not bend that way)
I could slide the Cover on
with the Chain in place
and then somehow install the Center Guide Pad
from behind through the small opening
but this would be too difficult
and I have the Gasket and O-Rings to worry about
(as both Engine Oil and Coolant pass thru Timing Cover)
during this installation as well
seems to make sense to get Timing Cover
installed correctly, Pressure Test for leaks
then install Timing Chain as per Workshop Manual
by treading thru and securing with Master Link
I would rather use a one-piece Chain
but the Original Split Chain DID last over 100K KM
pump you UP
once again I have updated for your viewing pleasure
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/fest055
and included a link for your convienience!
the Oil Pump rebuidl
was
more difficult
took longer
and cost more
than I had anticipated or planned-
a typical restoration job!
(especially a Ferrari one it seems)
however-
this particular aspect of the project
needs to be done 'just so'
no corners to be cut here!
(I am sure you will concur)
enjoy
AKB
aka
fest
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/fest055
and included a link for your convienience!
the Oil Pump rebuidl
was
more difficult
took longer
and cost more
than I had anticipated or planned-
a typical restoration job!
(especially a Ferrari one it seems)
however-
this particular aspect of the project
needs to be done 'just so'
no corners to be cut here!
(I am sure you will concur)
enjoy
AKB
aka
fest
timing chain adjustment
Fest: since you are the timing chain guru I have a question. The 250 manual gives instructions on how the adjust the slack in the timing chain by loosing the lock nuts and slowly turning the adjustment screw in until you feel tension. Is it then necessary to adjust the cam timing or distributor timing after this procedure?
thanks for any help!
Steve
thanks for any help!
Steve
-
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm
learn as I go
Dear Steve:
Thanks for the compliment;
but
I am far from a 'guru' on any thing Ferrari
let alone the Timing Chain
I just 'rolled up my sleeves' and 'dug right in'
I am learning as I am going along
what an expensive (usually) and painful (sometimes)
experience that it can be!
as for the pics, etc
I write work instructions
as part of my job
so, taking good pics
and providing clear descriptions
is pretty routine...
That said, I have not as yet come to the point
of adjusting the Chain Tension on my Engine-
I did not attempt to adjust Tension
before I decided to replace Chain
I surmised it was too far gone for that
(and I turned out to be right)
this is what I have gathered so far:
the Workshop Manaul states
to loosen the locknut on the Chain Tensioner
then run the engine
and adjust the Chain until it 'becomes noisy'
then back off slightly and tighten Lock Nut
this seems pretty subjective
and based on experience
(which I do not have)
earlier models have an 'automatic' Tensioner
which requires a different technique:
the lock nut (or bolt?) is released
which brings the Spring under tension
the engine is then turned over several times
(with coil disconnected?)
this allows spring to extend
and and take up the slack in the Chain
then the lock is tightend
and the procedure is complete
this type was discontinued
as for why I do not know
I think the 365 GTB/4 has this style
i.e. 'automatic' style
but the 365 GTC/4 switched to my style
i.e. 'manual' adjustment
I do not know for sure
???
Because I have the Engine disassembled
I plan to check the tension manually
after the new Chain is installed
the Workshop Manual shows how this is performed
according to the Manual,
when the Chain is properly tensioned,
on the tension side (LH)
the Chain Deflection
(measured between the Cam Sprockets)
should be
1 mm / 20 Kg
(BTW, this can be checked
with the Cam Sprocket cover off
so, this can be done
when the Valve Clearances are checked)
I can then get a good feel
for how tight the Chain should be
and then base the 'sounds right' methodology
on that benchmark i.e. new Chain tensioned properly-
right now I have no reference point
as the old Chain (and Idler Pully Bearings)
were TOAST and made horrifying sounds
the best method for adjusting the Chain Tension
may vary from model to model-
or maybe the 'sound' and 'feel' method
will work with all of them
I am of the opinon this may be the case-
perhaps others with direct experience
can shed some light on this subject
as for adjusting the timing
after tensioning the chain-
that is a good question
it may be prudent to check the timing
before and after adjusting chain tension
to see if it changes at all
I DO know that having a worn chain
results in throwing out the timing
and that the timing needs to be adjusted to compensate-
that is a warning sign that the Chain is shot-
i.e. if the tensioner is all the way in
and the Distributor is at the end of it's Timing Slots
it is a safe bet that the Timing Chain is worn out
(this was certainly true in my case)
Thanks for the compliment;
but
I am far from a 'guru' on any thing Ferrari
let alone the Timing Chain
I just 'rolled up my sleeves' and 'dug right in'
I am learning as I am going along
what an expensive (usually) and painful (sometimes)
experience that it can be!
as for the pics, etc
I write work instructions
as part of my job
so, taking good pics
and providing clear descriptions
is pretty routine...
That said, I have not as yet come to the point
of adjusting the Chain Tension on my Engine-
I did not attempt to adjust Tension
before I decided to replace Chain
I surmised it was too far gone for that
(and I turned out to be right)
this is what I have gathered so far:
the Workshop Manaul states
to loosen the locknut on the Chain Tensioner
then run the engine
and adjust the Chain until it 'becomes noisy'
then back off slightly and tighten Lock Nut
this seems pretty subjective
and based on experience
(which I do not have)
earlier models have an 'automatic' Tensioner
which requires a different technique:
the lock nut (or bolt?) is released
which brings the Spring under tension
the engine is then turned over several times
(with coil disconnected?)
this allows spring to extend
and and take up the slack in the Chain
then the lock is tightend
and the procedure is complete
this type was discontinued
as for why I do not know
I think the 365 GTB/4 has this style
i.e. 'automatic' style
but the 365 GTC/4 switched to my style
i.e. 'manual' adjustment
I do not know for sure
???
Because I have the Engine disassembled
I plan to check the tension manually
after the new Chain is installed
the Workshop Manual shows how this is performed
according to the Manual,
when the Chain is properly tensioned,
on the tension side (LH)
the Chain Deflection
(measured between the Cam Sprockets)
should be
1 mm / 20 Kg
(BTW, this can be checked
with the Cam Sprocket cover off
so, this can be done
when the Valve Clearances are checked)
I can then get a good feel
for how tight the Chain should be
and then base the 'sounds right' methodology
on that benchmark i.e. new Chain tensioned properly-
right now I have no reference point
as the old Chain (and Idler Pully Bearings)
were TOAST and made horrifying sounds
the best method for adjusting the Chain Tension
may vary from model to model-
or maybe the 'sound' and 'feel' method
will work with all of them
I am of the opinon this may be the case-
perhaps others with direct experience
can shed some light on this subject
as for adjusting the timing
after tensioning the chain-
that is a good question
it may be prudent to check the timing
before and after adjusting chain tension
to see if it changes at all
I DO know that having a worn chain
results in throwing out the timing
and that the timing needs to be adjusted to compensate-
that is a warning sign that the Chain is shot-
i.e. if the tensioner is all the way in
and the Distributor is at the end of it's Timing Slots
it is a safe bet that the Timing Chain is worn out
(this was certainly true in my case)