I have observed during my research headlight covers on 365s. The prototype had a chrome ring around the outer lip similar to the 275s. Most that I have found do not. Are headlight covers another points issue with judges? Does anyone use an external oil cooler, modern ignition, or a pre-oiler? I plan on driving mine a lot as all Ferraris should and am researching mild modifications that make our cars more reliable and perform better. I have read several articles of people in the 60s taking their brand new Ferrari and modifying the suspension or body to meet their personal tastes. I respect the knowledge and opinions of the judges and the purist, however disagree with there views, especially with cars as personal as classic Ferrari. How would the 456 station wagon or the famous bred van be judged or the Testarossa cabrio?
Once again thank you all for your insight.
Gino
Catania, Italy
More 365 questions
gino - I don't think I have ever seen a picture of the prototipo 365GT2+2. Are you calling s/n 10791 the prototype? Prunet says that the car debuted at the 1967 Paris Salon. Raab's Odd-Numbered Serials says that 10791 is the first 365GT2+2 and that it's first owner was in Belgium. Does anyone have any pictures?
As far as making modifications goes, I think you should probably familiarize yourself with the offical rules of the IAC/PFA (International Advisory Committee on the Preservation of the Ferrari Automible). I thought they would be published on the Ferrari Club of america site, but I do not see them there. Any debate about what judges critique must start there.
It's been a while since I looked at the rules, but my memory says that there are no deductions for replacing 'consumables', i.e. belts, hoses, etc with modern parts. I would be careful about upgrading running gear, suspension parts, etc with anything other than original bits (unless such parts were original options) if you are worried about deductions. Almost all of us upgrade things like alternators, voltage regulators, cooling fans, etc. - just be as subtle as possible about it. If I lose a point, at least I know I'll be able to drive home without my lights dimming or blowing a fuse if I turn on the AC. I think points deductions would be especially true on non-original cosmetic items.
My impression is that headlamp covers on the 365GT2+2s did not come from the factory, but were provided by the dealers along with the radios. On the other hand, I have seen an old factory photo that shows a black one w/ the covers. It is also my belief that no 365GT2+2s made for the american market were ever originally equipped with headlamp covers since the first one (11667 to Garthwaite) wasn't made until well into 1968 and after U.s. law forbade such covers.
If your car was an original european spec car, I think you could add the plain headlamp covers without fear of judging deductions since they were an original options, at lest at the dealer level. It's just like putting on Borranis even if your car was originally equipped with 10-hole alloys. I'd be interested to see a judge's reaction to the chrome-rimmed covers if you can show a judge that the prototipo had them.
what is your serial number, gino?
As far as making modifications goes, I think you should probably familiarize yourself with the offical rules of the IAC/PFA (International Advisory Committee on the Preservation of the Ferrari Automible). I thought they would be published on the Ferrari Club of america site, but I do not see them there. Any debate about what judges critique must start there.
It's been a while since I looked at the rules, but my memory says that there are no deductions for replacing 'consumables', i.e. belts, hoses, etc with modern parts. I would be careful about upgrading running gear, suspension parts, etc with anything other than original bits (unless such parts were original options) if you are worried about deductions. Almost all of us upgrade things like alternators, voltage regulators, cooling fans, etc. - just be as subtle as possible about it. If I lose a point, at least I know I'll be able to drive home without my lights dimming or blowing a fuse if I turn on the AC. I think points deductions would be especially true on non-original cosmetic items.
My impression is that headlamp covers on the 365GT2+2s did not come from the factory, but were provided by the dealers along with the radios. On the other hand, I have seen an old factory photo that shows a black one w/ the covers. It is also my belief that no 365GT2+2s made for the american market were ever originally equipped with headlamp covers since the first one (11667 to Garthwaite) wasn't made until well into 1968 and after U.s. law forbade such covers.
If your car was an original european spec car, I think you could add the plain headlamp covers without fear of judging deductions since they were an original options, at lest at the dealer level. It's just like putting on Borranis even if your car was originally equipped with 10-hole alloys. I'd be interested to see a judge's reaction to the chrome-rimmed covers if you can show a judge that the prototipo had them.
what is your serial number, gino?
Fest, I think you are referring to the 330 GTC Berlinetta Speciales - also known as the "De Rethy Specials" since the Princess owned the first one. There were four of them made and Pininfarina obviously took 90% of the body design for the 365GT2+2 from these Speciales.
I didn't realize that these 4 cars are thought of as the prototypes for the queen mothers. When I think 'prototype," I think the of the first car of a series to have the same engine, chassis and body type. The 330 Speciales have different engine and chassis (the wheelbase is almost 9" shorter than a Queen Mother!).
Here's what I have on the 330 GTC Berlinetta Speciales - and it's almost entirely from Bluemel and Prunet. All were originally silver-blue which makes picture identification tricky.
09439 - original Princess De Rethy car. Brussels Salon 1967. Borranis. 2 rows of 5 small vents in bonnet. 365 California-type pop-up driving lights. Budge bar on front bumper. Over-riders on back bumper.
09653 - Geneva Salon 1967. Dr. deBakey car. Borranis. 2 rows of 5 small vents in bonnet. 365 California-type pop-up driving lights. Budge bar on front bumper. Over-riders on back bumper. Prunet p.356.
10107 - Maria Daliska (sp?) car. Borranis. Two 365GTC-type vents in bonnet. No pop-up driving lights. Budge bar in front bumper. No over-riders on back bumper. Now black.
10241 - Dr. Palma car. Originally 10-hole alloys (now Borranis). Two 365GTC-type vents in bonnet. No pop-up driving lights. No budge bar in front bumper. No over-riders on back bumper. Bluemel photos in a recent Cavallino and currently for sale on Mike Sheehan's site. Gino, check out the headlight covers on this car - there are your chrome-edges! go to www.ferraris-online.com under 'cars for sale.'
Happy New Year!
Bryan
I didn't realize that these 4 cars are thought of as the prototypes for the queen mothers. When I think 'prototype," I think the of the first car of a series to have the same engine, chassis and body type. The 330 Speciales have different engine and chassis (the wheelbase is almost 9" shorter than a Queen Mother!).
Here's what I have on the 330 GTC Berlinetta Speciales - and it's almost entirely from Bluemel and Prunet. All were originally silver-blue which makes picture identification tricky.
09439 - original Princess De Rethy car. Brussels Salon 1967. Borranis. 2 rows of 5 small vents in bonnet. 365 California-type pop-up driving lights. Budge bar on front bumper. Over-riders on back bumper.
09653 - Geneva Salon 1967. Dr. deBakey car. Borranis. 2 rows of 5 small vents in bonnet. 365 California-type pop-up driving lights. Budge bar on front bumper. Over-riders on back bumper. Prunet p.356.
10107 - Maria Daliska (sp?) car. Borranis. Two 365GTC-type vents in bonnet. No pop-up driving lights. Budge bar in front bumper. No over-riders on back bumper. Now black.
10241 - Dr. Palma car. Originally 10-hole alloys (now Borranis). Two 365GTC-type vents in bonnet. No pop-up driving lights. No budge bar in front bumper. No over-riders on back bumper. Bluemel photos in a recent Cavallino and currently for sale on Mike Sheehan's site. Gino, check out the headlight covers on this car - there are your chrome-edges! go to www.ferraris-online.com under 'cars for sale.'
Happy New Year!
Bryan
protos
certainly, no need to quibble
whether or not the 330 'Speciales'
are officially 'the' prototypes
for the 365 GT 2+2
their influence is undeniable
as for the covered Headlights
I believe the car was originally speced
WITH Headlight covers
and were present on 'all' early cars
however, because of regulatory issues
for certain markets, most notably the USA
they were deleted (or removed)
on cars destined for those countries
eventally, the covered Headlight feature
was dropped altogether
for convienience's sake
(like the plexi panel on the Daytona)
no doubt there are exceptions
cutomer requests, later additions, removal, etc
but I believe you will find
(generally speaking)
that earlier cars have the covers
later ones do not
I like the covers BTW
and if and when I get a GT 2+2
I would actively seek to add the covers
if the car does not have them
whether or not the 330 'Speciales'
are officially 'the' prototypes
for the 365 GT 2+2
their influence is undeniable
as for the covered Headlights
I believe the car was originally speced
WITH Headlight covers
and were present on 'all' early cars
however, because of regulatory issues
for certain markets, most notably the USA
they were deleted (or removed)
on cars destined for those countries
eventally, the covered Headlight feature
was dropped altogether
for convienience's sake
(like the plexi panel on the Daytona)
no doubt there are exceptions
cutomer requests, later additions, removal, etc
but I believe you will find
(generally speaking)
that earlier cars have the covers
later ones do not
I like the covers BTW
and if and when I get a GT 2+2
I would actively seek to add the covers
if the car does not have them
agreed - the 330 GTC Speciales were definitely the template for the queen mothers.
As for the headlight covers, I'm just trying to understand the pattern, if any, in Ferrari's providing this option. I firmly believe they were never provided on american spec cars. I could also possibly buy into the theory that they were only provided as a matter of course on Italian market cars.
On the other hand, I own the 26th car of the 801 and it was originally delivered to a dealer in Rome. The earliest picture I have of it was taken in 1975 (no covers). The sheet metal show no evidence of holes for attachment.
When I run out of things to fix (could there be such a day?) I would like to get a set of the covers. I understand that fitting them is a bear because of the hand-made nature body-work.
As for the headlight covers, I'm just trying to understand the pattern, if any, in Ferrari's providing this option. I firmly believe they were never provided on american spec cars. I could also possibly buy into the theory that they were only provided as a matter of course on Italian market cars.
On the other hand, I own the 26th car of the 801 and it was originally delivered to a dealer in Rome. The earliest picture I have of it was taken in 1975 (no covers). The sheet metal show no evidence of holes for attachment.
When I run out of things to fix (could there be such a day?) I would like to get a set of the covers. I understand that fitting them is a bear because of the hand-made nature body-work.