330 GTC Sunvisor tips

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todaxyz
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330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby todaxyz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:18 pm

Tom, a question has come up as to the color of the rubber tips on the end of the sun visors in GTCs. You have 2 unrestored GTCs in your shop. Are the tips white or black?
Thx, Tom

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tyang
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby tyang » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:23 am

One of them has white tips and the other has black tips. It's hard to know which ones were changed!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

todaxyz
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby todaxyz » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:58 am

Tom, what are the serial numbers of the cars by tip color? Trying to see if there is a changeover by year or s/n number. Mine has black tips and is 10489.
Thx, Tom

Michael Bayer
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby Michael Bayer » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:45 pm

Sometimes the confusion in these interior details questions is from conflating the Ferrari factory's frequent use of substitute similar parts such as one type of hose clamp for another because at that moment the correct clamp was not at hand for the assemblers After all those assemblers were driven to building a powertrain whose design ethic was to perform at the highest levels not building a piece of visual art
But the Pininfarina assemblers WERE building a piece of art driven by a coherent visual ethic so it is hard for me to imagine them substituting a black plastic visor tip for a white visor that sat in plain sight against a white headliner when it was supposed to be white against white against white Tom Tjaarda (who drew the 330 for Pininfarina) once using my 330 talked me through how every detail was worried over during the Pininfarina design effort for the 330GT Once they settled on a design they stuck to it and enforced it in the carrozzeria So black tips- I am leaning these were subsequent replacements from dealors
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193

Michael Bayer
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby Michael Bayer » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:21 pm

A data point I asked who I believe is the longest serving parts man in the US Ferrari Dealer system (He has worked on these cars since the 60s) He has no recollection of them being other than white and (contrary to my hypothesis) the dark ones were never later in the Facroty parts stream - so heavens knows wheere they came from
So Tom are the differing tips from the two cars the same in every respect but color? M
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193

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tyang
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby tyang » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:09 am

todaxyz wrote:Tom, what are the serial numbers of the cars by tip color? Trying to see if there is a changeover by year or s/n number. Mine has black tips and is 10489.
Thx, Tom


Hi Tom,

The two survivor cars are nearly consecutive with one of them being 10767, but one was black and one was white. One of them may have been wrong.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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tyang
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby tyang » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:11 am

Michael Bayer wrote:A data point I asked who I believe is the longest serving parts man in the US Ferrari Dealer system (He has worked on these cars since the 60s) He has no recollection of them being other than white and (contrary to my hypothesis) the dark ones were never later in the Facroty parts stream - so heavens knows wheere they came from
So Tom are the differing tips from the two cars the same in every respect but color? M


No, they don't match. If I had to guess, the black ones are replacements.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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michaelbalk330
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby michaelbalk330 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:41 pm

for what its worth, my 330 GT is probably original - and black tips
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wmuno
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby wmuno » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:11 pm

My car is 10705 (Dec 1967) and has the black tips. I've had this car since 1978 so I can't state with 100% certainty that they are original. However, why would anyone change a part from white to black that is not subject to any wear & tear?

download/file.php?mode=view&id=3347
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enio45
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby enio45 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:43 pm

mostly because they were so thin and brittle over time and that they disintegrated and required replacing....
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
87 El Camino
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

wmuno
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby wmuno » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:01 pm

Sorry, but your theory isn't supported by the fact that most 330 GTC's still have their original white tips.

enio45
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby enio45 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:40 pm

ok, thanks for the thought - but having said that - all gtcs but one that i have seen, do not have their orig end caps.

we had 16 gtc's at the AZ cars and coffee last feb "not one of them" had the correct end caps or any at all.

regardless of the reason - finding correct replacements has been an issue that we are trying to solve
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
87 El Camino
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

wmuno
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby wmuno » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:49 pm

I really would like to know where everyone is getting the white replacement tips. Let me know if find a good reproduction. Thanks.

Timo
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby Timo » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:51 pm

May I offer my humble opinion or two, not based on direct observations of GTC visor arm tips, but as someone with 35+ years of nearly full time involvement in vintage car passion, preservation and restorations.

First, the two photos of visors with black rubber tips provided so ar in this thread show design/shape differences in the rubber tips, leading one to further question the "originality" of at least one, if not both pairs.

Also, it should be kept in mind that the climate/enviroment any 10+ , let alone 50 year old car has spent extended part(s) of its life in can have huge impact on condition or survival of its various O.E.M. components. For example, 10 or 20+ year old car having spent its entire life in dry & hot desert like place can have beautifully preserved body/chassis/die-cast trim/etc steel parts, but its "soft"" components like fabrics/foam/leather/rubber/plastic/etc can be brittle, dry-rotted and falling apart while another similar car spending same time in a damp and cold climate is likely to show opposite effects on its components.

And a lot more can happen in just few years in a cars life.
I, for one, can easily imagine someone (hired help?) accidentally knocking one or both of those tips off while cleaning/detailing the interior and the owner later noticing its/their absence, perhaps due to rattling, went by nearest parts supplier to find just any suitable replacements without much thought to "originality" and if only one was missing he/she might've replaced both, just to make 'em match.
Remember, at one time they were treated as just cars.

P.S. I'm myself facing uphill "battles" in attempts to collect proof on several manufacturing defects or inconsistencies I believe 365 GTB/4s were plagued with and have gone unnoticed or unrecorded for decades. For some I've been able to document fair amount of evidence, while others I might never be able to gather enough as most of the cars today have been refurbished/restored too many times and said evidence (unintentionally/unknowingly) erased without having been (photo)documented in the process.
Timo

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Tom Wilson
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Re: 330 GTC Sunvisor tips

Postby Tom Wilson » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:48 pm

todaxyz wrote:Tom, what are the serial numbers of the cars by tip color? Trying to see if there is a changeover by year or s/n number. Mine has black tips and is 10489. Thx, Tom


I can be of no help what-so-ever when it comes to visor tips in GTCs. However, if you do try to find a crossover point, don't forget that the bodies were made by Pininfarina and were not attached in the same order as Ferrari numbered the chassis'! I am trying to track those sort of things for the GTE and it gets really messy when working with body parts. At least I know that the GTEs were ordered in groups of 50, I can narrow it down to that level...
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
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