Engine removal from my GTC

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treue
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby treue » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:25 pm

I wasn’t sure that the block’s flywheel housing could handle the stress of a cantilever loading. The adapter frame, as built, allows for installation or removal of the flywheel.

That said, a V-12’s CG is further from the extreme rear of the block than a V-8. If the casters on the engine stand are not far enough forward of the mounting point, the whole assemblage will tip over to the front. Adding accessories to the front of the engine assembly will only make things worse.

My frame adds the thickness of the channel at the rear of the frame PLUS the clearance between the rear of the frame and the rear of the block, this distance approaching 6 inches, which does not help the stability issue. Nevertheless, all told, it worked.

BTW, I took the engine and transmission out of 9129 as an assembly. I built a small, heavy duty skateboard (2” by 8” by 8” with four small casters) and put it under the transmission tail shaft. I jacked the front of the car up 6-8” then hoisted the engine-transmission assembly out of the engine bay (with the hood removed, of course), letting the skateboard carry the transmission out of the transmission tunnel. Midway through the process, the engine and transmission were vertical. I then jacked the car down and got someone to lift the back end of the transmission up and over the radiator as the car was pushed rearward. A second hoist could be used to lift up the back end of the transmission instead of a person.

Tom
Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)

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tyang
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby tyang » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:00 pm

treue wrote:I wasn’t sure that the block’s flywheel housing could handle the stress of a cantilever loading. The adapter frame, as built, allows for installation or removal of the flywheel.

That said, a V-12’s CG is further from the extreme rear of the block than a V-8. If the casters on the engine stand are not far enough forward of the mounting point, the whole assemblage will tip over to the front. Adding accessories to the front of the engine assembly will only make things worse.

My frame adds the thickness of the channel at the rear of the frame PLUS the clearance between the rear of the frame and the rear of the block, this distance approaching 6 inches, which does not help the stability issue. Nevertheless, all told, it worked.

BTW, I took the engine and transmission out of 9129 as an assembly. I built a small, heavy duty skateboard (2” by 8” by 8” with four small casters) and put it under the transmission tail shaft. I jacked the front of the car up 6-8” then hoisted the engine-transmission assembly out of the engine bay (with the hood removed, of course), letting the skateboard carry the transmission out of the transmission tunnel. Midway through the process, the engine and transmission were vertical. I then jacked the car down and got someone to lift the back end of the transmission up and over the radiator as the car was pushed rearward. A second hoist could be used to lift up the back end of the transmission instead of a person.

Tom


Brave man. It's a lot easier to separate the transmission from the engine!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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treue
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby treue » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:37 am

From TY, above: “Brave man. It's a lot easier to separate the transmission from the engine!”

That’s fine if you have a car lift AND a transmission jack. I had neither. In the building in which I was doing the removal, I did have roof trusses and a come-along, but I was limited in how high I could jack the car, so, I jacked the car just high enough to clear the transmission tunnel moving forward while attached to the engine. Then, I removed the engine-transmission assembly as described above. Since I was also limited in how high I could hoist something, I had to have a helper to lift the transmission tailshaft over the radiator while I pushed the car a few feet to the rear. Then, I set the assembly down on the shop floor and separated the engine and transmission with the transmission CG sitting on the little skateboard. With the engine now separate, I could mount the adapter frame to it and lift it back up and mount it onto standard engine stand. Voilá.

Tom T
Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)

Steve Meltzer
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:01 pm

Whew! All the more impressive! s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

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tyang
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby tyang » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:43 pm

Who Says we have a lift at the shop?!? Jacks and jack stands! Transmission comes out from inside the car so no transmission jack needed, but I thought everyone already knew that...

Now with a 365GT 2+2, or a 365GTC/4, that's a different story!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Y'all are much tougher than I. Thought I'd never use mine, but whata great, great thing. s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:30 am

inching closer to the job and wondering if it's easier to remove the cam covers and the heads (yeah, they're leaking a bit, too) on the car, or on a work table. I saw a Daytona motor that the owner rebuilt not on an engine stand, but on a big, flat, robust table. Any comments? Also, the professional mechanic who's supervising me (not a Ferrari mechanic, but smart and good) thinks we should remove all of the studs, but this seems risky to me. Any thoughts from the pros here? thanx steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

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tyang
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby tyang » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:24 pm

Just pull the motor and stop thinking about it!!!

What's the history on this engine? How many times has it been rebuilt? Be careful what you plan to do or else you may end up rebuilding the whole engine!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

Colin Angell
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Colin Angell » Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:13 pm

Hi Steve
I'm with Tom, we are all looking forward to seeing your progress! I built a stand for my engine, obviously based on the ones I have seen used by the factory but simplified to suit my welding abilities. I cross-drilled the support tubes so the engine can be rotated and held in 90 degree increments which is very useful. I later modified it to take a transaxle and I have used it on other engines with suitable mods.
As for pulling the studs, well it is a lot of work, but very satisfying and you are unlikely to have another opportunity to literally go through every nut and bolt on your engine.
Good luck
Colin
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Steve Meltzer
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:46 pm

I believe the engine has been rebuilt twice, tho' not sure. the guy that I bought it from in '04 did a complete rebuild: pistons, rings, etc, but it's leaking oil from the heads. Not a lot (that's the rear main seal) but some. Compression was good across all cylinders. I didn't do a leak down. thanx for all of the help and photos. soldiering on. slowly. s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Steve Meltzer
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:57 pm

Can the engine be removed without pushing the torque tube and transaxle back? Any tricks or advice now that I'm at that part of the project? thanx. s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

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John Vardanian
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby John Vardanian » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:20 am

Nice work on the stand, Colin.

john
PF Coupe

Colin Angell
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Colin Angell » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:08 am

Thanks John.

Steve, you do need to pull the transaxle and torque tube assembly away from the bell housing. Loosen the two nuts on the transaxle mounts, you don't need to take them off, just make sure they are loose enough to let everything slide backwards. Then undo and take off the nuts around the front flange of the torque tube and loosen one of the pinch bolts on the splined connector which takes the drive from clutch to transmission shaft. That can be awkward because access is restricted through a hole in the torque tube and you will probably have to carefully turn the engine over with a socket on the front end of the crankshaft until the hole and bolt line up properly. Once all is undone you can lever the torque tube/gearbox back off the engine. It only needs to be just clear and you should find that the gearbox mounts are still making good contact. If you have a transmission trolley you may want the comfort of having it under the gearbox but if you don't then as long as you still have the drive shafts connected the worst that can happen is that the transaxle will drop until the shafts rest on the rear wishbones.
I would say that if you think you may be doing any work on the gearbox or transmission shaft then I would suggest you start at the rear by disconnecting the half-shafts and removing the transaxle (Same procedure to separate it from the torque tube) and then pull out the torque tube and transmission shaft before you take the engine out. They may then just sit on your garage floor for a few weeks/months, but it will make sense later.

Colin

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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Steve Meltzer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:23 pm

Colin, thanx for the great info. A couple of questions (and all of you gazers and geezers out there, feel free to chime in here):

1) Don't I need to loosen both of the bolts (pinch bolts) at the front of the torque tube? Remove them or just loose?
1a) Do they need to be marked in some way for reassembly reference?

2) I'm not working on the transaxle, so can i just leave those rear pinch bolts tight and not mess with them?

3) During all of this, does the car need to be in 2nd gear?
3A) Isn't positioning the torque tube to loosen the pinch bolts and put it in 2nd gear, going to move me from my beloved TDC for #1 cylindner?
3B) I can find it again, of course, so does that matter, or is it just my irrationality here?

4) If i shove the transaxle all the way back on it's mount, and not lift it off the mount, will i have enough room to get the engine out?

5) Does the bell housing come out with the engine or should I unbolt it from the block before final removal?

thanx. s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Colin Angell
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Worcestershire, England
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Re: Engine removal from my GTC

Postby Colin Angell » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:07 pm

Hi Steve

1) You just have to loosen one bolt, or to be more precise one nut, the bolt head is held captive to stop rotation. The connecting sleeve is solid in the middle but split at each end. One pinch bolt locks it to the transmission shaft and the other to the drive shaft coming out of the bell housing. Once you have slackened the nut and removed the flange nuts you should be able to slide the joint apart.
1a) No reference needed, the splines should re-engage in any position.
2) No need to touch rear connection, the torque tube and transaxle can stay together.
3) I'm sorry that I forgot to mention that you will of course have to disconnect the gearbox from the gear lever, my apologies. There is a universal joint which is cross pinned to the gear selector shaft and the rod leading to the gear lever. (I think the pins are 5mm diameter and they are held in place by rather tiny circlips which can be very difficult to assemble. I secured mine with safety wire for security.) It isn't essential to engage 2nd gear when you dis-assemble, but if you aren't going to be messing with the gearbox then it is probably good sense, because it will make re-assembly quicker. Adjustment and alignment of the gear lever are carried out with 2nd gear engaged as a starting point.
3a) You will probably loose TDC
3b) Yes, find it again!! I can't remember how far you are going with your engine, but if the heads are coming off then TDC is plain
4) Yes, I think so
5) Bell housing can come out with the engine.

All the best

Colin


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