Gauge lighting

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

User avatar
peterp
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:42 am
Location: NJ

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by peterp » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am

Second time's a charm?

These lights might fit -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079P1FNJG/re ... 24498&sr=3

The good news is that, if the measurements are correct, they are actually smaller than the incandescents and they are $12.95 for 10. The bad news is that the only "white" they have appears to be 6000k, which is very cool and may not look correct (though instrument lights may be less sensitive to color temp than other directly exposed lights). Also lumens/wattage isn't listed, so difficult to know how bright they are (but they will still probably be brighter than original bulbs). Need to ensure polarity on 330 matches that shown below.

Image

Another possible LED that might fit is here -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-12V-BA9S-T ... :rk:5:pf:0

The good news is that these "warm white" color, 10 for $11.99 shipped, and presumably will fit based on shape (though no dimensions given)

Questions are: will single LED pad light distribution work in 330 gauge? (depends on how light is reflected internally) The listing doesn't say how bright they are. Doesn't show polarity.

Image
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169

Jumprun
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by Jumprun » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Peter, nice work hunting those down. It's hard to tell exactly why the LED I bought won't fit because I'm feeling around in the spaghetti, I wiggled, jiggled and pushed but could not get the bulb into the gauge receiver. It feels like a diameter issue rather than a length. The diagram with dimensions is not entirely accurate as the corners of the square "pads" extend out farther than the .45 dimension shown on the diagram.

User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by 330GT » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:06 pm

peterp wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am
Second time's a charm?

These lights might fit -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079P1FNJG/re ... 24498&sr=3

The good news is that, if the measurements are correct, they are actually smaller than the incandescents and they are $12.95 for 10. The bad news is that the only "white" they have appears to be 6000k, which is very cool and may not look correct (though instrument lights may be less sensitive to color temp than other directly exposed lights). Also lumens/wattage isn't listed, so difficult to know how bright they are (but they will still probably be brighter than original bulbs). Need to ensure polarity on 330 matches that shown below.

Image
In one of the questions:
Are these compatible with dimmer switches?
Answer:
They are not dimmable.
... this led bulb is for 9-16 voltage, when Large voltage, high brightness, when low voltage, low brightness.
if the voltage is very lower, the bulb will be turned off, if the voltage is too higher, the bulb will be burned out. hope to be honest to you.
iautotech
Seller · October 5, 2018

Given that battery voltage is 12.6V and usually the alternator outputs from that to ~15.5V depending on the charge needed, these might dim a little, but then just turn off. I'm looking forward to someone trying these to see how well they work. It also sounds like they will vary in brightness as the alternator puts out a lower voltage at idle and then brighter as the engine revs.
Hopefully a before and after picture showing the relative brightness.

BTW, the polarity will be correct on the dash bulbs, but will not work on the low fuel warning light.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

User avatar
peterp
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:42 am
Location: NJ

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by peterp » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:53 pm

Thanks Kerry. It's interesting that the low fuel warning light has reverse polarity from the others. Regarding dimability, all of the instrument LED's I looked at seem to have that same operational voltage range and it seems like dimming worked ok in at least a few user reviews. Agree that the only way to know how/if they work is to try them.

I should point out that in the picture, the "glass" portion of the LED light has a slightly larger diameter than the halogen next to it. Given that the base diameter is 0.36", I'd guess from looking at the picture that the LED bulb diameter is something like 0.40" (versus the halogen where the glass has a slightly smaller diameter than the 0.36" base). So I guess, even though the LED bulb is shorter, it's still not certain they will fit based on bulb diameter. I haven't seen a factory bulb, so I don't know how the OEM 330 bulb compares to the halogen they have in the pic.

I would have ordered a few different bulb sets and tried them out myself, but I just don't have any time to work on the car right now (have to live vicariously through you guys for the moment).
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3873
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by tyang » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:13 am

peterp wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:53 pm
Thanks Kerry. It's interesting that the low fuel warning light has reverse polarity from the others. Regarding dimability, all of the instrument LED's I looked at seem to have that same operational voltage range and it seems like dimming worked ok in at least a few user reviews. Agree that the only way to know how/if they work is to try them.

I should point out that in the picture, the "glass" portion of the LED light has a slightly larger diameter than the halogen next to it. Given that the base diameter is 0.36", I'd guess from looking at the picture that the LED bulb diameter is something like 0.40" (versus the halogen where the glass has a slightly smaller diameter than the 0.36" base). So I guess, even though the LED bulb is shorter, it's still not certain they will fit based on bulb diameter. I haven't seen a factory bulb, so I don't know how the OEM 330 bulb compares to the halogen they have in the pic.

I would have ordered a few different bulb sets and tried them out myself, but I just don't have any time to work on the car right now (have to live vicariously through you guys for the moment).
The low fuel light works on the sending unit providing ground to the light when the float reaches the bottom of the tank. Since all the bulbs secure to the holders via negative ground, the LEDs sleeve is negative (ground), and the tip is positive. The fuel gauge warning light is isolated in the holder and wired opposite.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by 330GT » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:09 am

I have an extra set of the 4 block gauges for my 330 GT and recently removed the clock to get it working.

As I was looking at the bulbs, yes, it is clear that the bulb portion can be larger than the base and still fit into the gauge body.

So, I had bought some LED bulbs for the gauges a while ago, but when they came, I didn't even try them as they looked too large. Well, they do fit and here are some pictures.

I haven't put one in my car to try the dimming. But since these bulbs were not advertised as being dimmable, I presume that they will not dim, but will just shut off as some point.
Attachments
LEDGaugeBulbs_08.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_07.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_05.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_04.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_02.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_01.jpg
LEDGaugeBulbs_06.jpg
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3873
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by tyang » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:05 pm

Hi Kerry,

Looks good.

LEDs are also available in various color temperatures. It's hard to tell in photos since most digital cameras automatically color correct as the picture is taken, but LEDs tend to be pretty cold (blue+ higher color temps). I like the warm glow of the gauge lights, so if given a choice, I would order the warmest (lower color temp) LEDs I could get. I don't know how warm they get, but cold colors run in the 4-5K range, warm bulbs are in the 3.2-3.6K range.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

User avatar
peterp
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:42 am
Location: NJ

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by peterp » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:38 pm

Great work Kerry (as always). Agree with Tom that it would be amazing to see how 3000K or 2700K look, if they exist. Having the right color temp is everything with LED's.
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169

User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by 330GT » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:53 am

peterp wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:38 pm
Great work Kerry (as always). Agree with Tom that it would be amazing to see how 3000K or 2700K look, if they exist. Having the right color temp is everything with LED's.
Once you get out of standard hi-volume LEDs, the range of temperatures available diminish to one or two. There is not enough market to have a choice of multiple temperatures. When I looked at these bulbs a few years ago, there was only the bright white bulbs. Hopefully as LEDs become that standard, more variations will be available.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

User avatar
peterp
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:42 am
Location: NJ

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by peterp » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:49 am

330GT wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:53 am
Once you get out of standard hi-volume LEDs, the range of temperatures available diminish to one or two. There is not enough market to have a choice of multiple temperatures. When I looked at these bulbs a few years ago, there was only the bright white bulbs. Hopefully as LEDs become that standard, more variations will be available.
I've had the same experience. I'm not sure why warm dimmable versions are so difficult to find - granted the vintage instrument bulb market isn't huge, but whoever has a bulb that works will get 100% of that market. I sent an email to www.superbrightLED.com and www.1000bulbs.com to see if they have a dimmable warm 363 LED bulbs. I'll post back if they come up with any suggestions.
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169

User avatar
peterp
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:42 am
Location: NJ

Re: Gauge lighting

Post by peterp » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:59 pm

I spent a while last night trying to find warm white instrument lights. They are NOT easy to find because there there are several important criteria that need to be met. My experience with LED's is that it is impossible to know for sure if they work for an intended application until you try them, but these seem to meet the criteria: https://www.ebay.com/itm/183642547568?ul_noapp=true

Color Temp: Warm White is 3000K (2700k is probably better, but not available)
Non-Polarized: Yes (will work with either polarity)
Dispersion: 360 degrees
Lumens: around 90 (slightly less than 90 for warm white)
Dimmable: Yes (light is off at or below 6v, brightness varies between 6v and 11v, then are at max brightness above 11v)
Length: 25mm
Base: BA9s
Base/Head Diameter: 9mm / 10mm

The eBay seller's name is "led_bulbs_for_classic_cars", so hopefully knows a thing or two about instrument light use.

Below is a cut & paste of the response from the seller when I asked about dimming and brightness:

Thank you for your message Peter.

These LEDs are dimmable. They start lighting at 6 volts and reach full brightness at 11 volts. You would need to check your voltage range to see if they will dim on your vehicle. Solid state dimmers work very well with these.

In 6000k these are around 90 lumen. 3000k will be slightly less.

Kind regards
Classic Car LEDs Ltd


Image
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169

Post Reply