Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

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enio45
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Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:09 am

Is the paint color for the 2 car types wheels the same - GTC =14 inch and GT 2+2 = 15 inch wheels

Also - anyone have the paint code that is used and judged as correct?

Thank you a lot -
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

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330GT
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by 330GT » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:45 pm

PPG Delstar, color DAR 32498, Marlin Silver Poly*. To that I added PPG Urethane Flattening Agent, DX 685, to make it a semi-gloss (per instructions on can).
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:04 pm

thanks kerry -

any thoughts on the gtc vs gt 2+2 wheels? same color?
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

DWR46
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by DWR46 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:34 am

Ed: They were the same color. In 1972 we matched the color to 1960 Chrysler Silver (Chrysler only had one silver in 1960).

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:25 am

OK thank you - ill investigate yours and kerry's solutions - hope they are the same :-)
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

DWR46
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by DWR46 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:38 am

Ed: I doubt they are the same. We matched a five year old spare wheel. I have no idea the age of the wheel Kerry matched.

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:21 pm

ill get my painter to get a few oz's of the proposed colors and see what we have.......
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 pm

Kerry - do u recall what pointed you into the direction of your paint color - wheel color match?

My wheels on the 330 GT were unrestored at the time i paint my car in 2003, supposedly they did a color match as well

im curious to how they compare to these other silvers .......

i quite honestly look at the GTC's and GT wheels and seems everyone has a silver of some shade they use.....
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

DWR46
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by DWR46 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:48 am

Ed: The point of my post was these wheel colors change significantly with age. The effects of years of sunlight, brake dust and the base magnesium causes the original color to change tint and appearance. With today's technology, matching the color as it now appears is easy, but actually duplicating the ORIGINAL color is difficult.

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330GT
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by 330GT » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:58 am

enio45 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 pm
Kerry - do u recall what pointed you into the direction of your paint color - wheel color match?

My wheels on the 330 GT were unrestored at the time i paint my car in 2003, supposedly they did a color match as well

im curious to how they compare to these other silvers .......

i quite honestly look at the GTC's and GT wheels and seems everyone has a silver of some shade they use.....
No, not a color match. I saw this paint color info in something I read back when I first bought my 330 (82). Since then I've looked back at the places I might have found it (FAF catalog, etc.), but haven't ever figured out where I got the info.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:24 am

We did color match from a GTC that we believe was correct silver for the wheel.

We also had a specific discussion with the judges at Cavallino on the color and it seems to be acceptable
with the exception that we had too much gloss on the wheel.

This week for another client GTC we painted his 5 wheels and top coated with a satin clear and i think the look
is much better and closer to where the judges like to see it.

Ill get the color codes and clear coat code and post it for future reference for others.

If i can upload a pic, u can see the sheen difference....

File too big - will downsize and repost.
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

enio45
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by enio45 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:32 am

pic below
Attachments
IMG_3470.jpeg
satin clear vs gloss look
IMG_3470.jpeg (26.73 KiB) Viewed 229 times
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

DWR46
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by DWR46 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:09 pm

Ed: Please don't take this post as a condemnation of what you are doing. I believe your approach for your client, who wants to show the car, is normal for today's Ferrari World. However, 330 wheels were never clear coated when new. Making a color and finish to be "what the judges like" is just so wrong in my humble opinion. This is the reason I totally left the Concours scene over 25 years ago. The judges DO NOT know all the answers and many of them have an appalling lack of knowledge about the cars. This situation is better today, but not significantly so. Many of today's judges have, maybe, restored one or two cars (many times never restored a car), and then they are expected to know EVERYTHING about lots of different models of Ferrari's. I have continued my approach, which is to make the car very close to how it was built (regardless of judges opinions) and make sure the owner realizes the car will probably not be well received at a major Ferrari concours. Again, nothing negative about you or your work is intended, just a comment from an observer.

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tyang
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by tyang » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:30 pm

DWR46 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:09 pm
Ed: Please don't take this post as a condemnation of what you are doing. I believe your approach for your client, who wants to show the car, is normal for today's Ferrari World. However, 330 wheels were never clear coated when new. Making a color and finish to be "what the judges like" is just so wrong in my humble opinion. This is the reason I totally left the Concours scene over 25 years ago. The judges DO NOT know all the answers and many of them have an appalling lack of knowledge about the cars. This situation is better today, but not significantly so. Many of today's judges have, maybe, restored one or two cars (many times never restored a car), and then they are expected to know EVERYTHING about lots of different models of Ferrari's. I have continued my approach, which is to make the car very close to how it was built (regardless of judges opinions) and make sure the owner realizes the car will probably not be well received at a major Ferrari concours. Again, nothing negative about you or your work is intended, just a comment from an observer.
Hi Dyke,

I don't have to say this, because I hope you know this already, but I have the utmost respect and appreciation that you participate in this forum. All of what you say is pretty much spot on, but that doesn't mean we can't change things! I started this website 20 (!) years ago because there was so little real information out there about Vintage Ferraris, from their maintenance to their restoration. I never claim to be an expert, or have definitive answers to how anything is done, but as a collective, I think we've all become smarter from the knowledge base that exists on this website. I think sharing information and calling out those who don't know (without ruffling feathers) is the best way to make "what is right" and "what the judges think is right" closer to the same thing.

I have always refused to judge for several reasons, one of them being I don't like the destructive nature of deducing points from a car that the owner and shop worked so hard to build. I personally like to help and consult with owners and shops to add points to their cars during the process, not deduct on show day. That being said, I'm glad many people don't share my reasons, and judge. Without them, we wouldn't have shows. It's a thankless job that takes a lot of time away from the enjoyment of a Concours field, so they deserve a little credit!

Can the judges be better at what they do? Absolutely. Just like we can get better at restoring these cars. It all come from information. I know for a fact a lot of Concours judges lurk in the background on this website and forum, and I know some judges even recommend new judges read through this website to familiarize themselves with the cars. I'm honored that they consider this site as a teaching tool, but it only works if we continue to share information. If we don't share information, how are we to expect to learn?

Sorry for the long winded, off topic post. Thanks for bearing with me.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

DWR46
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Re: Campy wheels - GT 2+2 and GTC

Post by DWR46 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:23 pm

Tom: Your comments are well thought out and you make valid points. My concerns about the judging, both in the past and today, is the remarkable inability of some judges to admit they are wrong even when confronted by factory photos and records. I agree judging is a thankless task made worse by lack of direct knowledge of the cars. Unfortunately, the only way to really learn about these cars is to actually hold the parts in your hand as you work on the cars. There is no reason to continue the subject and I probably should have never brought it up, but every so often I see another example of judges that are are so sure of everything about Ferrari's, while the more I work on the cars, the more I am unsure about so many things. If I could give one piece of advice to the owner and restorer of vintage Ferrari's, it would be, if the Factory produced a Parts Catalog, very carefully read and study it. The cars were built almost exactly as shown in the Parts Catalogs. Also learn to understand the parts numbering system of the day, as those part numbers can reveal lots of information as to which cars use them. Also carefully search out the "old" magazine tests and articles. Here you will find photos of ORIGINAL cars.

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