Posted by Bill
Tom,
I wished I would have known earlier that you were at Monterey. I woud have tried to find you at the races. I was there and part of my brothers crew. He runs a F1 Alfa and a Can Am McCleran.
Also, you may want to rething the idea of getting your car off the jack stands. I have always found that it is much easier to put an engine in when the car is up in the air. You can crawl all around, over it and under it too that way. Maybe it doesn't need to be quite as high as is but definily have it on stands. Of course I dont work on Ferraris....
Wait until the engine is in and you can actually start it... That is a thrill you wont forget. I am doing that this next week. 30 years of sitting to be brought back to life, I can wait !
Good luck
Bill
Hi Jacks
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Tom
Hi Bill,
I plan to keep the car on jack stands, just not the high ones! I think the engine hoist that I'm renting doesn't go that high, and it scares me to try and lift my precious engine that high with a "cherry picker" type lift.
Although I'm kind of "Car-ed out" from all the things I did last week out in Monterey, I can already feel the pull in wanting to return next year! I promise we'll meet then!
Installing the engine will open the floodgates of all other work that needs to be done before firing up the engine. The transmisson needs to be installed along with the clutch and the linkages, the fuel lines will need to be connected, the headers bolted on, the electrical lines connected, and the radiator installed. Then I have to decide if I should fire her up with the headers! Imagine the racket!
Tom
Hi Bill,
I plan to keep the car on jack stands, just not the high ones! I think the engine hoist that I'm renting doesn't go that high, and it scares me to try and lift my precious engine that high with a "cherry picker" type lift.
Although I'm kind of "Car-ed out" from all the things I did last week out in Monterey, I can already feel the pull in wanting to return next year! I promise we'll meet then!
Installing the engine will open the floodgates of all other work that needs to be done before firing up the engine. The transmisson needs to be installed along with the clutch and the linkages, the fuel lines will need to be connected, the headers bolted on, the electrical lines connected, and the radiator installed. Then I have to decide if I should fire her up with the headers! Imagine the racket!
Tom
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Bill
Tom,
You are not going to install the engine, transmission and clutch as a unit ? I am surprised.
On the cars I work on (mainly British & American) that is the only way I do it. It makes lining up everything much easier if you can do it on the shop floor as opposed to under the car. Of course, the Italians may be different.
Good luck in getting it in and go for it with headers.... You will impress the neighbors.
Tom,
You are not going to install the engine, transmission and clutch as a unit ? I am surprised.
On the cars I work on (mainly British & American) that is the only way I do it. It makes lining up everything much easier if you can do it on the shop floor as opposed to under the car. Of course, the Italians may be different.
Good luck in getting it in and go for it with headers.... You will impress the neighbors.
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Tom
Hi Bill,
Ah, but those Italians do it differently! Because of a welded on cross member in these cars, the transmission comes out from the passenger compartment! You can imagine the care that needs to be taken when removing a greasy transmission out from an interior swathed in leather and wool, not to mention this cast iron unit ain't light! When a clutch job is needed in one of these cars, the seats, carpets, and center tunnel need to be removed.
I'm not sure exactly which Ferraris need to follow this proceedure, but I will assume all the road cars prior to the early 330s did it this way. Anybody out there can confirm this?
Tom
Hi Bill,
Ah, but those Italians do it differently! Because of a welded on cross member in these cars, the transmission comes out from the passenger compartment! You can imagine the care that needs to be taken when removing a greasy transmission out from an interior swathed in leather and wool, not to mention this cast iron unit ain't light! When a clutch job is needed in one of these cars, the seats, carpets, and center tunnel need to be removed.
I'm not sure exactly which Ferraris need to follow this proceedure, but I will assume all the road cars prior to the early 330s did it this way. Anybody out there can confirm this?
Tom
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Zac
Bill
I think you are way underestimating the over engineering involved in Ferraris. I have put together a few English and American cars and they are a breeze in comparison. I've Put together a Lusso with brand new interior and had to have it torn back apart to get at the trans( no fun with the hand quilted tan leather) . I've also had a 330 America take a couple of days just to get the motor in and then another day touching up all the scratches . It is almost like they built the car around the engine.Good luck Tom I'm sure Francois has a few tricks up his sleeve.
zac
Bill
I think you are way underestimating the over engineering involved in Ferraris. I have put together a few English and American cars and they are a breeze in comparison. I've Put together a Lusso with brand new interior and had to have it torn back apart to get at the trans( no fun with the hand quilted tan leather) . I've also had a 330 America take a couple of days just to get the motor in and then another day touching up all the scratches . It is almost like they built the car around the engine.Good luck Tom I'm sure Francois has a few tricks up his sleeve.
zac
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Tim
On my car, a 64 330gt, due to the placement of the front crossmember and oil pan, the engine must be level and travel its last 8 inches or so directly vertical. The distributors and drives must be off to clear the firewall. No headers. I did mine with the carbs and manifolds off as removing them is simple (6 nuts) and they are fragile. Engine in is really quite simple, at least in my later chassis. Tim
On my car, a 64 330gt, due to the placement of the front crossmember and oil pan, the engine must be level and travel its last 8 inches or so directly vertical. The distributors and drives must be off to clear the firewall. No headers. I did mine with the carbs and manifolds off as removing them is simple (6 nuts) and they are fragile. Engine in is really quite simple, at least in my later chassis. Tim
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Bill
I can see that the Italians designed the cars with easy maintenance in mind.
Thank God I dont have to pull a Dynaflow through the passanger compartment. At 250 lbs I would get a hernia.
Good luck Tom and I stand corrected.
Bill
I can see that the Italians designed the cars with easy maintenance in mind.
Thank God I dont have to pull a Dynaflow through the passanger compartment. At 250 lbs I would get a hernia.
Good luck Tom and I stand corrected.
Bill
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by tim
Greetings again. A hint for those unfortunate enough to have to remove a 4sp o/d trans from a 330gt. Remove the rear engine mount bolts and trans mount bolts. Loosen the exhaust to collector bolts. You are doing this so you can take the raise the trans slightly. Remove the do-nut bolts. Raise the trans slightly and remove the overdrive from the back of the trans. The trans is now shorter, lighter and much easier to deal with. As always, installation is the reverse of the above. Tim
Greetings again. A hint for those unfortunate enough to have to remove a 4sp o/d trans from a 330gt. Remove the rear engine mount bolts and trans mount bolts. Loosen the exhaust to collector bolts. You are doing this so you can take the raise the trans slightly. Remove the do-nut bolts. Raise the trans slightly and remove the overdrive from the back of the trans. The trans is now shorter, lighter and much easier to deal with. As always, installation is the reverse of the above. Tim
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Jonathon
Yep, we pulled my transmission and engine very recently. To set the stage - all electrical and plumbing connections were removed, the headers, distributors and carbs were off the engine, and the driveshaft was removed. The radiator was out too, and the front of the car was on normal jackstands. The plates which make up the front mount were disconnected at the frame member, not the engine, otherwise the oil pan won't clear them.
The transmission comes out first. Using the hoist to slightly raise the rear of the engine (the transmission has to come up a bit to clear its rear mount), and a jack under the transmission to support its weight, remove the bell housing bolts and pull it straight back. Be careful to rotate it to clear the clutch linkage on the left front, or you could bend it or the clutch slave cylinder studs. Also, take care not to damage anything to do with the clutch plates or bearing. We were hoping the rented hoist would fit in the door, but the roof was too low for the boom to fit far enough in, so the armstrong method had to be used. Two strong guys can lift the 5 speed transmission, but boy is it heavy!.
The engine then simply lifts pretty much straight up coming forward slightly once the oil pan clears the front cross member. Plenty of space if the distributors are off, but perhaps it can be done with the drives still on, we didn't try.
Simple, nothing to it.
Jon
A couple of pictures here
Yep, we pulled my transmission and engine very recently. To set the stage - all electrical and plumbing connections were removed, the headers, distributors and carbs were off the engine, and the driveshaft was removed. The radiator was out too, and the front of the car was on normal jackstands. The plates which make up the front mount were disconnected at the frame member, not the engine, otherwise the oil pan won't clear them.
The transmission comes out first. Using the hoist to slightly raise the rear of the engine (the transmission has to come up a bit to clear its rear mount), and a jack under the transmission to support its weight, remove the bell housing bolts and pull it straight back. Be careful to rotate it to clear the clutch linkage on the left front, or you could bend it or the clutch slave cylinder studs. Also, take care not to damage anything to do with the clutch plates or bearing. We were hoping the rented hoist would fit in the door, but the roof was too low for the boom to fit far enough in, so the armstrong method had to be used. Two strong guys can lift the 5 speed transmission, but boy is it heavy!.
The engine then simply lifts pretty much straight up coming forward slightly once the oil pan clears the front cross member. Plenty of space if the distributors are off, but perhaps it can be done with the drives still on, we didn't try.
Simple, nothing to it.
Jon
A couple of pictures here
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Bill
Very nice Engine stand, Its a unique way of working around the engine that I have never in my 40 years around cars seen.
I have decided though after looking at this and reading how to pull transmissions that I will never ever restore a Ferrari. Too much specialized knowledge.
I will stick with my early Buicks.
Bill
Very nice Engine stand, Its a unique way of working around the engine that I have never in my 40 years around cars seen.
I have decided though after looking at this and reading how to pull transmissions that I will never ever restore a Ferrari. Too much specialized knowledge.
I will stick with my early Buicks.
Bill
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Tom
Hi Bill,
Armed with the correct proceedure, working on a Ferrari is not that bad!
Jonathon, Tim and Zac,
Speaking of having the right information, Do you guys if I use some of this information to write a tech on engine removal/installation? Since mine will be going in soon, it would be a perfect time to help others do the same thing, or at least let them know why their mechanics charge so much to work on their cars!
Let's work together in taking the mystery out of working on a Ferrari!
Tom  
Hi Bill,
Armed with the correct proceedure, working on a Ferrari is not that bad!
Jonathon, Tim and Zac,
Speaking of having the right information, Do you guys if I use some of this information to write a tech on engine removal/installation? Since mine will be going in soon, it would be a perfect time to help others do the same thing, or at least let them know why their mechanics charge so much to work on their cars!
Let's work together in taking the mystery out of working on a Ferrari!
Tom  
Re: Hi Jacks
Posted by Jonathon
Bill,
Thanks for the compliment on the stand, I appreciate it. Actually it was this site which convinced me that the early Ferrari's were NOT all that unusual and esoteric, and can be worked on without lifts or crates of unusual tools.
There are several good sources of technical information on the early Ferraris. In addition to this site, Kerry Chesbro's is also a great resource (see Tom's Ferrari Links), and I seem to keep going back to http://www.jag-lovers.com as they are also dealing with older V12 cars and have a lot of info.
There is a searchable index of suppliers here: http://www.ferrariclub.com/rolodex/
There are good tech tips, and a good article on buying an older Ferrari here:
http://www.fca-sw.org/
In addition to the Ferrari manuals, there are a couple of general books which have useful Ferrari specific technical info:
The Ferrari Market Letter Tech Tips
http://www.ferrarimarketletter.com/shop/index.cfm
The Ferrari Guide To Performance
http://www.VelocePress.com/
Ferrari Tuning Tips & Maintenance Techniques
http://www.VelocePress.com/
Actually, despite dire warnings to the contrary, I have found most of the the engineering to be quite elegant and state of the art for its day. You just have to be careful, as the 'you break it you buy it' can be more expensive than other cars.
Cheers,
Jonathon
Bill,
Thanks for the compliment on the stand, I appreciate it. Actually it was this site which convinced me that the early Ferrari's were NOT all that unusual and esoteric, and can be worked on without lifts or crates of unusual tools.
There are several good sources of technical information on the early Ferraris. In addition to this site, Kerry Chesbro's is also a great resource (see Tom's Ferrari Links), and I seem to keep going back to http://www.jag-lovers.com as they are also dealing with older V12 cars and have a lot of info.
There is a searchable index of suppliers here: http://www.ferrariclub.com/rolodex/
There are good tech tips, and a good article on buying an older Ferrari here:
http://www.fca-sw.org/
In addition to the Ferrari manuals, there are a couple of general books which have useful Ferrari specific technical info:
The Ferrari Market Letter Tech Tips
http://www.ferrarimarketletter.com/shop/index.cfm
The Ferrari Guide To Performance
http://www.VelocePress.com/
Ferrari Tuning Tips & Maintenance Techniques
http://www.VelocePress.com/
Actually, despite dire warnings to the contrary, I have found most of the the engineering to be quite elegant and state of the art for its day. You just have to be careful, as the 'you break it you buy it' can be more expensive than other cars.
Cheers,
Jonathon