Knock offs

Ferrari Message Board Archive 10/00-8/02

Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:30 am

Posted by Parker

Hi Tom: Good job on chasing down the information on the wheels. I have seen the English wheels at Retromobile and they looked pretty nice. I thought that the fellow told me that he couldn't stamp the wheels and I'm suprised to see that he can use the logo on the knock offs. Sometime after the war Borrani changed from the old English Rudge- Whitworth logo to thier own Carlo Borrani logo. Some of the very old Ferraris had two ear knock offs with the Rudge-Whitworth marking, notably the Briggs Cunningham car in the Collier museum. In 1961 Borrani sold the company to the new owners and the stamping was changed to "Ruote Borrani". I believe the wheel stickers were changed at the same time. The change from two ear knock offs to three was made after the Indy venture in the early 1950's. You will see lots of 1957-58 photos of the race cars with three ear knock offs on the rear and two ear knock offs on the front. At about 1964 the change was made from the convex three ear knock offs to the concave type, still with the Ruote Borrani hand marking in the center. The change can be documented by looking at photos of G.T.E.'s and Lusso's, but I don't know a good date or serial number to document it precisely. With the advent of the 275's a change was made to the Prancing Horse logo on the center of the konck-offs. I believe that the wire wheels were originally fitted with knock-offs that had the bent or angled ears, while the alloy wheels used knock-offs with the straight ears. I have been told that the wheels were often changed by the dealers to suit a coustomer's wish and that no thought was given to matching the knock-offs. No doubt Francoise has some experience at this point. As the knock-offs were changed the wheel stamping was also changed. The "normal" configuration is to have the Rudge-Whitworth, Carlo Borrani or Ruote Borrani stamped in the outside face of the rim and the date of manufacture stamped on the inner face of the rim, however I have seen "original" wheels without the date stamps and I think also without the Manufacturer's stamp on the outside. I have heard the Ralph Nader / Ben Hur episode took place about 1970 and knock-offs became an outlawed dangerous anachronism shortly thereafter.
The three piece tube nipple protector set seems to be a Pirelli component and is noted in the parts book for the inside plug 250's. No doubt the Pirelli people could confirm the dates. There is also a small plastic piece which is often used around the tube nipple as it is inserted into the hole in the wheel. I think I remember seeing it in the ad for the company in the Carolinas that reps Dayton wheels.
You are doing a wonderful service and I hope that you will keep digging and do several more cars.  
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:05 pm

Posted by Tom Yang

Hi Parker.

I got your catalog and note in the mail over the weekend, and am responding via snail mail.

Thank you so much for your support, and comments on this site. As I slowly become comfortable asking all the other restorers around the country, you can be assured the information will be for all to share here on the site! I'm doing some research on gear oils at the moment, and I'm sure everyone will find the information VERY useful! Look forward to it in a future article.

I will try to incorporate what you wrote above to another "tech tip" as soon I feel I have the whole story! Hendrix wire wheel has the grommets, and I just placed an order, so I'll be reporting on what I they have as soon as I get it in the mail! I also bought the "spoke tape" because I had trouble buying the "conduit tape" Cork Adams recommended.

How was Cavallino? I came this "" close to going. Maybe next year!

Tom
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:52 pm

Posted by Chris Coios

Hi Parker,  Am I correct that the straight ear knock-offs used for the magnesium wheels (275's etc.) were made by Campagnolo (as were the wheels)?  If I remember, 'Campagnolo' may be cast into the back of one of the ears on the knock-off.  Chris
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:07 pm

Posted by Kerry

In the 1967 Ferrari yearbook, there are pictures of 2 new 330 GT cars with alloy wheels and curved ear knock-offs.  These are pictures of cars in auto shows, so one would think that extra care would have been taken to make sure that they were fitted out correctly at the factory.

So I don't think that one can say the the alloy wheels should be straight ear and wire wheels should have the curved ear ones.

This may be more the case where the mechanic walked over the shelf and grabbed whichever was handiest when it was time to put the wheels on a new car.  I am convinced that tool kits were done that way.
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:42 pm

Posted by tim

Parker, is the Collier Museum open again.  I was there 10 or so years ago (had been a regular at the Cunningham Museum).  Outstanding collection but no photography allowed.  OK, I'll buy the museums book.  No don't have those either.  Not even an inventory.
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Knock offs

Postby wwwboard » Fri Feb 01, 2002 4:51 pm

Posted by Parker

Hi Tim: I think the Collier museum is still closed. I guess its pretty hard to hire three or four people to man an operation like that so that you can open it to the public. Very sad, because it is something special. I saw the Cunningham 166-earliest Ferrari in the U.S.- a couple years ago. It had Rudge Whitworth knock offs on the right or normal passenger side, with Carlo Borrani on the Left, Port, or normal driver's side. ( If I remember correctly it was right hand drive). They also had it out with three or four other early 166's at the Cavallino show a couple years ago. Sad to see the cars locked up but they do take them out for an event from time to time. Thanks for the note...All the best..Parker
wwwboard
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm


Return to Ferrari Message Board Archive 10/00-8/02

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron