Front Suspension
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
While I have nothing but respect for my friend Cornelis' experience, it's hard to see how the fit of the stamped spring keeper bracket is more critical than that of the arms on the inner pins, considering the precision of the machined relief on the pins and the variable dimension(s) of the the bronze washers.
With the fitment on the arms set on the inner pins (snug, but free rotation of the arms and pins with no end-float), and the right washers on the outers, the bolts for my spring brackets dropped right into the holes like a LeBron jumper: ploonk...right to the bottom. Maybe I was just lucky.
Getting a good fit on the final outer pin washer was a little more work, since I only had about four spares and none was quite the right thickness. Lacking a lathe like my friend John, my own personal prisoner, Zac, took .3mm off one by massaging it against a piece of emery cloth on my nice, flat benchtop while I amused myself with something else.
I don't like the look of the Nyloc nuts either, but will trade the look for a good, consistent torque on the outer arms.
With the fitment on the arms set on the inner pins (snug, but free rotation of the arms and pins with no end-float), and the right washers on the outers, the bolts for my spring brackets dropped right into the holes like a LeBron jumper: ploonk...right to the bottom. Maybe I was just lucky.
Getting a good fit on the final outer pin washer was a little more work, since I only had about four spares and none was quite the right thickness. Lacking a lathe like my friend John, my own personal prisoner, Zac, took .3mm off one by massaging it against a piece of emery cloth on my nice, flat benchtop while I amused myself with something else.
I don't like the look of the Nyloc nuts either, but will trade the look for a good, consistent torque on the outer arms.
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
I wanted to close the loop on this…
The last step of the operation should be slipping in the large circlip, but since my car is currently an empty hull, pushing up the spring raises the car. In this way, everything goes on the chassis first, with the top one-third of the upright connected to the upper wishbone and the bottom two-thirds connected to the bottom wishbone. Then the spring is persuaded into its perch, then the last step of the operation is slipping in the large nut at the head of the upright while compressing the spring with a jack and a strap. There was no drama in this method and I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out. But, I’m sure the other side will take less than an hour.
John
The last step of the operation should be slipping in the large circlip, but since my car is currently an empty hull, pushing up the spring raises the car. In this way, everything goes on the chassis first, with the top one-third of the upright connected to the upper wishbone and the bottom two-thirds connected to the bottom wishbone. Then the spring is persuaded into its perch, then the last step of the operation is slipping in the large nut at the head of the upright while compressing the spring with a jack and a strap. There was no drama in this method and I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out. But, I’m sure the other side will take less than an hour.
John
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
great thread - I'm coming up fast to doing the same for my car....and i was wondering how to best compress that spring to get the upper and lower to attach.
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain
87 El Camino SS
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain
87 El Camino SS
Re: Front Suspension
John, Great solution to the front spring install. I was not too keen of the idea loading the coil spring up through the bucket and then holding it in place to install the large circlip. That process seemed very risky assembling a coil spring under compression and controlling it. Thanks for sharing.
250 PF Cab. SN 3783
Re: Front Suspension
mmmh John this look like children shit to me.
I am only a hobby man my self.
How do you get in the cir clip ?
big question to me.
the later cars has on opening in the lower disk.
so special equipment goes from the inside to compress the heavy spring to solve this issue.
those are not expensive.
Enio´s car is missing this big hole, but can compress from the outside of the spring.
when I find time ,I will show how the two compressors look like witch I use.
BEST
C.
I am only a hobby man my self.
How do you get in the cir clip ?
big question to me.
the later cars has on opening in the lower disk.
so special equipment goes from the inside to compress the heavy spring to solve this issue.
those are not expensive.
Enio´s car is missing this big hole, but can compress from the outside of the spring.
when I find time ,I will show how the two compressors look like witch I use.
BEST
C.
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Cornelis, the circlip goes in before the spring is inserted in its cup.
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
John, is here one of the expieranced amateurs like meJohn Vardanian wrote:Cornelis, the circlip goes in before the spring is inserted in its cup.
john
but his method is not advisable for the "beginners" here.
My fingers are my capital for my daily work, so I avoid any risk.
Here the cheap equipment I use. cost about50- 70 € maybe ??
the disc in the springholder is till the end of 1960 closed.
the later cars like GTE LUSSO etc has an big hole in this plate/disk were more thinner equipment compressors can go through.
best
C.
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Re: Front Suspension
open disk/plates
found on the www.
not mine.
C.
found on the www.
not mine.
C.
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Thanks Cornelis. I have this tool, but I didn't want to use it on the nicely painted coil springs. It is not that difficult to persuade the coil to go to its perch with some slight push from your hands.
john
john
PF Coupe
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
John: I can't tell for sure what your technique is from the picture. But if I'm following, it sounds like you're disassembling the kingpin just enough to let the upper eye come off the top of the kingpin and stay with the upper suspension arms. And then making the whole suspension "say ahhh" while you insert the spring. Is that it?
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
-
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Dave, that's it. The kingpin is made up f three pieces; the top piece stays with the upper wishbone and the other two stay with the lower wishbone. You push in the spring and then bring the upper and lower wishbones together with a jack and a strap. The pin comes thruthe top piece and you put on the nut. I wonder if a come-along might be better than a Jack and a strap.
Note: the stop bracket needs to be off during this routine or it will get in the way of the spring. It goes on last.
john
Note: the stop bracket needs to be off during this routine or it will get in the way of the spring. It goes on last.
john
PF Coupe
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
Tried John's method for inserting the spring without success. The tapered fit of the top of the kingpin into the upper A-arm eye was just too tough to overcome and my fear of damaging something made me put down the copper hammer and led me back to the "traditional" way of doing it - from the bottom of the spring bucket.
Like Cornelis, I'm fond of all my fingers in their present configuration, so I made the adapter in the attached photo. The stack of wood (glued and screwed) provides a deep, stabilizing pocket for the 10" long piece of pipe, and the other end of which fits right into the recess in the lower spring plate. The underside of the wooden piece makes a pocket for the jack saddle. The 2" cargo strap is up to the task of holding the car against the spring pressure. The giant circlip goes over the jacking post first, of course. That's my brother-in-law's hairy shin in the background.
A couple of pumps on the jack handle and the spring slides up in there slick as frog s**t. The hardest part is generating the enormous force necessary to compress the circlip and ease it into place. Even with super-duty srew-type circlip pliers, it took multiple tries. The good news is that with the circlip over the jacking post, it couldn't really go anywhere the multiple times it popped off the tool.
Biggest question is why the passenger side assembly hangs about 3/4" lower than the driver's side at full droop. Also makes the steering arm knuckle on the kingpin rub on the spring. Clearance is okay with the suspension compressed, but I'm puzzled. Anyone?
Like Cornelis, I'm fond of all my fingers in their present configuration, so I made the adapter in the attached photo. The stack of wood (glued and screwed) provides a deep, stabilizing pocket for the 10" long piece of pipe, and the other end of which fits right into the recess in the lower spring plate. The underside of the wooden piece makes a pocket for the jack saddle. The 2" cargo strap is up to the task of holding the car against the spring pressure. The giant circlip goes over the jacking post first, of course. That's my brother-in-law's hairy shin in the background.
A couple of pumps on the jack handle and the spring slides up in there slick as frog s**t. The hardest part is generating the enormous force necessary to compress the circlip and ease it into place. Even with super-duty srew-type circlip pliers, it took multiple tries. The good news is that with the circlip over the jacking post, it couldn't really go anywhere the multiple times it popped off the tool.
Biggest question is why the passenger side assembly hangs about 3/4" lower than the driver's side at full droop. Also makes the steering arm knuckle on the kingpin rub on the spring. Clearance is okay with the suspension compressed, but I'm puzzled. Anyone?
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1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
Re: Front Suspension
David, the chasisbracket with carried the" rubber stop"-suspension arm- is rather fragile and often bent down.
check those for the hanging issue.
Interesting to see that your brake discs (rotors) are balanced normally only seen on competition cars.
best
C
check those for the hanging issue.
Interesting to see that your brake discs (rotors) are balanced normally only seen on competition cars.
best
C
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Good work, Dave. It looks like these earlier cars do not have the rubber disk that goes between the spring and the retainer.
john
john
PF Coupe
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
It looks as though the bracket that holds the bump stop for the full droop condition is the main culprit. Neither one appears to be bent. My guess is that when the apprentices at the factory welded them on, they made one lower than the other.
I never made the connection to the drilled rotors before, Cornelis - thanks for the sharp eyes. The owner of this Cab wanted to make it a Ferrari hot rod in the early Seventies. The car incorporates a number of parts from a crashed Ferrari racing car of the period, and apparently the brakes were part of the package.
Future owner behind the wheel.
I never made the connection to the drilled rotors before, Cornelis - thanks for the sharp eyes. The owner of this Cab wanted to make it a Ferrari hot rod in the early Seventies. The car incorporates a number of parts from a crashed Ferrari racing car of the period, and apparently the brakes were part of the package.
Future owner behind the wheel.
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- 20160131_145747.jpg (246.38 KiB) Viewed 11103 times
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."